Girlguides now in on the act

I'm an ex-leader. I was very concerned about some aspects of this policy when it was first announced and asked HQ how they squared it with their wish to recruit more girls from backgrounds where parents would not allow them to join a mixed group. HQ told me that there were the organisation's values, parents would know what they were signing up to and if they didn't want to join, so be it.

And, of course, the policy applies to adult volunteers, too.

Where GG really COULD make a difference is to be involved in research towards why so many young girls and women are suffering from gender dysphoria. At this age it really ISNT all about the menz. These young teens are unable to reconcile growing into women - what can GG do to support these girls and help to reverse that trend?
I know 6 girls in this age bracket who are transitioning. No boys.

I think I'm pretty close to this now. My GG unit is 12-14yo and we are the only unit for this age group in our small community (well, not tiny - we have probably around 250 girls that meet this demographic in town). I was chatting today to a mum of a girl who used to be one of my brownies, and it came up in conversation that said child now goes by a male name/ pronouns. I know another girl in the same age group in town who transitioned three years ago. Obviously both of these children have now opted out of the GG community, but even in my small town there are a noticeable number of young teenagers who are transitioning.
I spend a huge amount of time building confidence and empowering the young women I work with, and we talk a lot about peer pressure, male privilege, and the importance of being true to yourself. There are also a couple of modules on sex and relationships... I am already having to consider how I address these issues. I am not yet aware of any mtf youth, but it is only a matter of time. Even in the back of beyond where I volunteer.
The adult transwomen I know are not the angry young men of the current wave of fashion. They are all middle aged, trying to be invisible, and hoping to fuck they pass (mostly they don't, but they do their level best to get on with their lives regardless). These transwomen don't alarm me in the slightest. They have been through their drama and just want to get on with the mundane business of earning a living and getting on with their lives. We chat. They know I know. They know everyone knows. But we all ignore the elephant in the room and get on with it.
Children and teenagers on both sides of this are so vulnerable.

That was meant to be

Bit of an x post there [bush]

I wonder if @dropthemic will be back? People who object to what we're saying do tend to flounce whenever they are faced with an actual transsexual on these threads. Bit ironic really.

I just felt it seemed very one sided and conscious that anyone reading this thread who is trans/has a family member who is, would be feeling incredibly dejected or so if imagine.

There are both transsexuals and parents of trans children who post here quite regularly who agree with us.

@dropthemic

What I think is sad here is that some people are denying being transgender is real,that it's just a mental illness

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness. That's why the majority of children with gender dysphoria grow out of it with time and therapy.

However thanks to those "big scary trans activists" it is becoming increasingly difficult to access therapy because it is now viewed as transphobic and as being conversion therapy. So uh, thanks for that, I guess .

I just felt it seemed very one sided and conscious that anyone reading this thread who is trans/has a family member who is, would be feeling incredibly dejected or so if imagine.

This may come as a surprise to you but not all of us think the same way or want the same things. We're as diverse as any other group therefore we are not all going to agree among ourselves or be offended by the same things.

Apart from what in your pants datun how do you know if you are male or female? What makes you male/female? We can't reduce it all down to just reproductive organs

Yes we can. Biology determines the male and female of just about every species on the planet , including humans. (As Blue Planet has just shown us this does not apply to a minute numbers of sea creatures)

If you think biology is not the determining factor- what is?

What you described above is sex not gender to be fair

But that’s the whole problem.

Change gender. Great. But then demand rights based on sex.

Datun I'm not sure if feminist is the word you are looking for.

It is.

We can't reduce it all down to just reproductive organs.

Um, that’s exactly what it means.

Male and female are biological categories. You know, based on biology. That’s the definition.

Bucketandspoons I previously said that I totally understand that parents have concerns. They should question those in charge,they ensure their child's safety and the thinking and consequences of changing policy. What I think is sad here is that some people are denying being transgender is real,that it's just a mental illness, that's what I'm opposed to. I don't mean to appear unsympathetic to your concerns. The situation you have described is incredibly scary and totally wrong. But many trans people experience violence on a very regular basis too. I just felt it seemed very one sided and conscious that anyone reading this thread who is trans/has a family member who is, would be feeling incredibly dejected or so if imagine.
I believe both sides have legitimate points but as I said before if we tried to make more of an effort to understand trans issues then there may be a productive dialogue.
What you described above is sex not gender to be fair

It still would be for girls tho. Do you really think boys who identify as male want any involvement in the guides?

Datun I'm not sure if feminist is the word you are looking for.

What makes you male/female? We can't reduce it all down to just reproductive organs.

Seriously?

Ok. Chromosomes. Every cell in your body demonstrates a biological sex. Reproductive organs, reproductive capacity (which may or not be working but is still present) external genitals, pelvic size and shape. You can make all the external changes you like via surgery and hormones and an archaologist digging you up a thousand years from now will have no difficulty establishing from your skeleton almost immediately what biological sex you were.

It's a material reality.

The age range for Guides is 10 - 14. How many transgender people are there in that age range in the UK?

Would you please give some examples of fear and ignorance here? And I'm interested as to why your empathy appears to extend one way only?

To clarify in case I am one of the posters you feel are creating a false image of 'big scary trans activists', I am usually careful about specifying in my posts that it's the trans lobby and activist narrative that I am talking about to separate it from the many, many trans people who don't agree with what is being said in their name. I also wouldn't say I see the lobby as particularly big, but considering the vast number of references to rape, violence, murder and dehumanisation of women who dare to ask questions about some highly questionable messages made in the social media of these groups, and considering that these groups are actually being invited by government to advise on legislation and policy, and that two women on two separate occasions have been physically assaulted for displeasing activists one of whom stated in advance their desire to 'fuck up some terfs' - scary is a very good word.

dropthemic

I have asked someone who is transgender. I know exactly why they transitioned.

And they wouldn’t dream of making women and girls uncomfortable. So guess what? They don’t.

Apart from what in your pants datun how do you know if you are male or female? What makes you male/female? We can't reduce it all down to just reproductive organs.

and there isn't much room left for empathy which is incredibly sad.

You don’t think women are empathetic? You don’t think feminists are empathetic? Feminists whose entire lives are spent championing minorities?

I’ve never, ever seen a person here say they are not empathetic to those with gender dysphoria.

The autogynephiles, chancers and predators, absolutely. Certainly not people with gender dysphoria.

What’s that got do with it? Why should one’s sympathy for a psychological condition mean that we are happy to dismantle the boundaries of girls and women everywhere?

Seriously. Why remove the boundaries for 51% of the population for less than 1%? Especially as the males in that 1% retain male pattern criminality!

Why?

How about ask someone who is transgender

So you are not willing to apply any critical thought yourself at all?

Equally using the daily mail article as a reason to take out the pitchforks is ridiculous

We're not. Many of us were already aware of this policy which has been in place for months and months now. No pitchforks, just a suggestion that G should remain, as advertised, for girls.

I have worked with young people and disadvantaged groups for many years

And presumably you never seperated the sexes for any reason?

Datum - thank Christ I'm not the one to try and even explain it to you. How about ask someone who is transgender? If you are actually interested that is. You know it's not catching and I'm pretty sure like most of the general population they don't bite

Equally using the daily mail article as a reason to take out the pitchforks is ridiculous. It's not my definition either btw. I'm not a psychologist,and by the sounds of it nobody here is either. Yet everyone seems to dismiss proper research done by actual professionals. I have worked with young people and disadvantaged groups for many years (though not directly with transgender people-in case you think I'm part of the big scary trans activists) and one theme I see is that the wider community doesn't like to see anything out of the norm. If they do, fear and ignorance takes over and there isn't much room left for empathy which is incredibly sad.

dropthemic

Can I just ask you. With every single word in the English dictionary at your disposal, and utilising the far reaches of your imagination or even just a stream of consciousness, can you give me an example of say the possible top three things that a boy identifying as a girl could be thinking to make him know that he is female?

Very good point fusion