Girlguides now in on the act

Unfortunately I don’t see GGUK reversing their decision until the whole country has reached peak trans. The risk of a backlash from those who would see excluding trans kids as kin to homophobia is too great.

MsBeaujangles

I’m glad you are defending places like the Tavistock. They don’t seem to have bought into the political side of this, so far.

The problem with it is that this is just going to increase. More pressure will be brought to bear. More children will be showing up.

I would have slightly more faith in the actions of healthcare professionals, if we haven’t had so many come on here saying that ‘Do no harm’ was killing them in their professional capacity.

Because they were expected to make diagnoses and decisions based on a political and possibly career damaging platform, rather than their personal judgement.

I am currently watching the pro trans lobby go into unimagined overload.

Shutting down dissent. Mobilising and pressuring/threatening people in authority.

In the last few days we have seen men telling women they will lose (men who identify as women!), 19 year old boys who style themselves as Jimmy Savile‘s apprentice being given women’s positions and blocking women who question it, rape apologists and evident misogynists being supported by people with power.

Women everywhere have come together and are pushing back. The backlash against that is phenomenal.

It’s almost as though it was expected. And the activism is organised, funded and very, very real.

So I am not confident that health care professionals will be able to withstand this onslaught.

My (male) DP is a Guide Unit helper, with a DBS like any other adult.

He came on a National Camp with me over the summer, and stopped to chat to some girls who wanted to look at his camp blanket. They had assumed he was a site instructor as they were the only other men on site, when he said he was a helper they were really excited - they thought it was really cool that he wasn’t “afraid to like girly stuff”.

He doesn’t help weekly, and not at Guides or Rangers because he’s only 24, so too close to being their peer which would change the all female dynamic, but my Brownies love their ‘Bearded Owl’.

Fern this photo is from the members area of the guiding catalogue.
I have met a couple of male unit helpers, not leaders, they couldn't make the promise. TO be fair, they were "guiding widowers" who were roped in as security on large scale events.

This is of course entirely seperate from the discussion about trans leaders

DatunI’m always surprised when people say ‘well I don’t think men would go to the trouble of putting on a dress in order to abuse women/children’Don’t you?! Don’t you really think they would? There was a man recently who hid in a fucking septic tank under the toilets to take pictures of women using the toilet. Putting a dress on seems much easier and more pleasant to me

Apologies if this has been answered in one of the many threads

But when it becomes that easy to self certify and to basically infiltrate every female only space as all a man has to do is say he feels a woman and put on a dress, given mis gendering is a hate crime , and the current definition of rape is that it is only possible for men to rape, ( disclaimer it's the definition as it stands now I.not saying women don't assult people) where does all this leave rape claims?

Will people get convicted of actual rape as they have a penis or will it be reduced to sexual assult as they can't be dead named or mis gendered etc

@datun, @munchkinmaster

Wrt 100% of children who take puberty blockers going on to cross sex hormones - my experience is that those that are passed to endocrinology for consideration for blockers are those whose dysphoria is chronic (long standing and has not been responsive to therapy over time). Watchful waiting is very much advocated.
For what it is worth, I am not surprised that the children who I have known who have been referred for consideration for blockers have gone on to cross sex hormones. If there was a chink of light to work with in relation to talking therapy having a successful outcome, they would not be referred to endocrinology.

Wrt de-transitioning - Therapists don't always get things right, and this can have tragic consequences with different client groups (as is the case when people with schizophrenia are discharged from secure provision and murder people upon release).
All I can say is that, in my experience, none of the professionals I have worked with take any aspect of their GID work lightly and they are balanced and considered despite the huge amount of pressure placed on them. Domenico Di Ceglie, from the Tavistock, has written a good paper about how this work can feel like working 'at the edge' and acknowledges how difficult problem solving can be when experiencing the amount of pressure that they can be put under.

Datun I’m always surprised when people say ‘well I don’t think men would go to the trouble of putting on a dress in order to abuse women/children’ Don’t you?! Don’t you really think they would? There was a man recently who hid in a fucking septic tank under the toilets to take pictures of women using the toilet. Putting a dress on seems much easier and more pleasant to me

It’s a paedophile’s charter.

Any paedophile who doesn’t have a criminal record, that is.

I wonder how many of those there are?

Did Savile have a criminal record?

I suspect not, neither did he fail the DBS check. As he was allowed to access vulnerable children whenever he wanted.

When all he had to do is say he was trans and apply to be a guide leader.

Instead of, you know, spending his entire time pretending to be concerned by rising millions and millions of pounds for children.

Paedophiles will go to any length to indulge their fetish.

Ferntwist - You are wholly wrong about men not being unit helpers. The unit I used to run has had two men as unit helpers. They did an excellent job. There were male unit helpers at several of our residentials, sleeping in separate accommodation at the other end of the site. Commissioners would never have approved that if it wasn't in accordance with rules. You seem to be confusing helpers with leaders, who must be women.

Men, who identify as men, for clarity, cannot be leaders in guiding and cannot make the promise. They can be unit helpers and they can and do go on guide camp.
They all have to be DBS checked and there are strict rules about separate toilets showers and the like.

Men who identify as women on the other hand, CAN be leaders as "they are women"

*unit helpers

Ferntwist, that’s not true. Men are not able to take the promise and become leaders in Guiding, but they’re able to be into helpers and even come on Camp. Guiding is about providing opportunities for girls, whilst giving them female role models, not about demonising all men for being abusers.

Surely any transwoman who wants to be a girl guide leader would surely be subject to all the usual vetting/ criminal record checks?

Oh god name

They seriously have no idea what they are saying anymore do they.

They need to all get over this romanticized idea of a struggling little 12 yr old who means no harm to anyone (god knows that's how I saw it until recent events) and realise that this is all coming from a place that just wants to take over all spaces regardless of how everyone else feels.

How is indulging these things in a scout camp which is probably the one place it will make zero difference what your sex is helping these children.

And how the hell do you explain it to the other kids without reinforcing stereotypes that surely scouts isn't even about?

Won't that just compound the problems and create more given any girl on a scout camp getting filthy and building camp fires will start thinking there's something wrong with her?