Reconciling my beliefs (trans, liberal etc)

Zombie thread. There is a current thread. Please put your comments there, Michaela.

Mich. it’s been done in previous threads...use the search facility

Ereshkigal - Whose calculations? Please quote the reputable sources from which you developed your summary?

Hi Michaela

The calculations allow for that. That's what a murder rate is. It's measured against the specific population. Which for trans people, is an inexact estimate.

TDOR is a global event to commemorate murdered trans in that context, it has no border constraints or considerations.

Nationalism is abhorrent and never more so than when used in a body count fashion. Murder is murder, try not to use it to your advantage.

If it was me, I'd say nothing about the trans day of remembrance, let them get on with the farce (and it is a farce. Trans people are not being killed because they are trans in the UK.)

But I'd ask for a women's day of remembrance. If they say no, I'd be wanting to know why. There's no way a trans day of remembrance is defensible if you wan't have a woman's day of remembrance.

And if they will let you have a woman's day of remembrance, then use it to raise awareness of male violence. And to celebrate people like Jean Hatchett, Karen Ingela Smith and others campaigning to raise funds and awareness.

Zombie thread Michaela....

Could be that more of those in other groups are murdered than are trans simply because there are far fewer trans than belong to other groups.

Please don't try and use statistics to prove your view as factual unless you also supply a rationale to support your argument.

ferntwist

That link was grim. Sobering reading.

"Everyone else seems to be much more welcoming of this bill as a positive step to ending discrimination"
I would say the important word in that sentence is SEEMS.

The translobby has (until recently) been very effective at shutting down any voices that were less than 100% enthusiatically behind them. So with critics silenced, and people like yourself reluctant to ask questions for fear of bringing trouble to your door, and lots of people unaware/unconcerned; the only voices you've heard have been those welcoming the bill.

This has two effects:

1. You haven't heard the other side of the argument (which you may or may not agree with, you won't know until you hear it)
2. You have felt isolated in your thoughts, and this has led you to worry that you are wrong, because no-one else seems(!) to be thinking your way.

That sense of isolation tends to make people self-censor, adding to the lack of anything-less-than-enthusiastic-allyship being heard. It's a vicious circle of silencing.

So I would start to reconcile this by considering that the seeming welcome might not be as wholehearted as you are assuming. Accept things at face value a little less. Ask yourself if there could be more than one reason for someone's behaviour.

I'm concerned about the idea that being liberal etc must automatically align with certain views
I think it's a big factor in GRA as well
What happened to just looking at developments and forming an opinion based on fact?

I hear you Gherkins. I normally just lurk about these parts, but I do just want to say I get it and feel the same.

It is difficult to reconcile because it's been packaged and sold as a progressive movement - and it does look like that until you investigate deeper than the surface.

The way I frame it in my head is as a tension between women's rights and trans rights. I uphold trans people's right to life, love and happiness the same as anyone else's, but their rights cannot be allowed to neutralise or negate others'.

A woman in a vulnerable position or location has as much right to safety and dignity as a trans person. How can we safeguard everyone? The only sane answer to all this IMO is to create those third gender-neutral spaces, which you don't generally see many trans people arguing or campaigning for.

Having said all that here, I would never say this in public under my own name. I know exactly what would happen and I don't want any of it. It's tough.

There's also nothing liberal about telling transpeople that they have to tack themselves on to the services designed for women rather than having their own, tailored services which can accommodate their unique needs.

The answer, as usual, is more Feminism

The screaming haters are much louder and have the ear of the powers that be.
Usually we can ignore the screaming haters but in this case we can't. (e.g edl isn't shaping policy in westminster. But mermaids is).

I don't object too much to TDOR. A friend of mine observes it as one of her good friends was a trans woman who had a very difficult life (disowned by family for being trans, history of being abused) and jumped in front of a train. There are people advocating for trans rights who don't hate women, and it is possible to be supportive of both women's rights and trans rights. There are just a lot of screaming arseholes repeatedly poisoning the whole discussion.

You aren't alone. I'm kind. I like being kind and I want society to be kind because the alternative, at worst, is terrifying. We are capable of such evil as a species. I think it's healthy to question your feelings and make sense of whether they're appropriate. I think there has been a tradition of doing this since WW2 because of what happened on European soil. But there are lots of other people out there who've asked themselves the same questions you are and still have a sense that there is something very wrong with what TRA's are saying.

It is very hard to stand against people calling you a bigot and a transphobe. It feels very uncomfortable. But people are saying those things to aggressively shut down all debate. It's a very powerful tactic and it's nonsense. I want transpeople to be safe because I want everyone to be safe. I don't want women to be less safe or lose hard won rights because a minority of men are having a tantrum and emotionally blackmailing people.

If I had to break it down into two sides, one is saying "there's lots to discuss" and the other is saying "if you don't agree with us, you're a bigot".

Well said. I don't see the trans-agenda as progressive at all. Its misogynistic and homophobic. The transing of kids is modern day gay eugenics, yet so many support it blindly. It scares the shit out of me how unquestioning people are

We have TDOR at work, it's not something I'm prepared to put my head above the parapet on.
Interestingly we are also having a gender neutral loos trial and they have converted the gents to gender neutral. That's been a good way into convos. When people ask "why the gents?" You can being up religious issues for women, the fact there is usually more demand for the ladies so longer queues, the fact women may be dealing with menstrual issues and not want men around (and men may not want to be around).

That's interesting morningrunner. I didn't know that. I guess the rotherham crisis makes more sense now because there's good old fashioned misogyny added to the mix.

To the OP, we haven't had trans remembrance day yet but we do have stonewall providing guidance on lgbt+ issues so it can't be long. I am thinking of broaching the counting dead women plus womens remembrance in the new year.

We also have gender neutral toilets for a long time but they are done well so are fine.