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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Professional boobs?

82 replies

TittyGolightly · 22/11/2017 14:04

I work in HR and have had a senior manager come to me today seeking advice re a member of staff’s chest. Apparently a few comments have been made that this lady - who they praise for in terms of knowledge and professionalism - has attended a couple of meetings recently in clothes which are too low cut for her (in the manager’s words) “ample bosom”. They wanted to know how they should advise the employee that they risked “appearing unprofessional” if they showed a bit too much boob.

I did the professional thing and advised in line with our policies, but it got me thinking. As it happens I am also big-boobed and take great care to make sure I don’t have bra showing/buttons gaping etc, but it got me wondering whether this is reasonable or not. We are very understanding of women’s needs around pregnancy and menopause as an organisation, but then judge part of their worth on how much chest skin is shown? Isn’t this part of the same argument around bhurkas?

Incidentally, I’ve never been asked to give advice on a man wearing a shirt/trousers are too tight.

So, thoughts?

OP posts:
TitaniasCloset · 23/11/2017 20:05

Oh I'm sure you're wrong kitty!

Yeah I'm just talking waffle aren't I? Big boobs are just seen as sexual, end of. Smile

KittiKat · 23/11/2017 20:00

I can vouch that not a lot go for tall, wonderfully legged busty women!! Grin Grin I tried hard though...

KatherinaMinola · 23/11/2017 19:59

Personally I do think cleavage looks unprofessional - although Theresa May is a current role model for cleavage-at-work!

I agree that the size of the breasts should be immaterial, but there's no doubt that a flat-chested woman can wear a bit of a scoop neck without it looking sexualized, whereas someone with larger breasts might show upper breast and cleavage in the same top.

I think the same is true of chest hair, which is partly why wearing a tie looks more professional in a man.

I know there's an argument for saying that no clothing is sexual and it's all in the eye of the beholder, but what we wear does send certain messages and as a society we are trained in reading those messages.

TitaniasCloset · 23/11/2017 19:58

Stock not stick!

TitaniasCloset · 23/11/2017 19:57

Ok I'm off on a tangent here, don't shoot me! But having long good legs is quite a middle class lady thing and big boobs especially if you are petite is seen more in working class women. Studies that someone somewhere who I can't link to because I don't know who they are have shown that rich men go for taller slimmer women and poorer men go for petite busty women, not sure who goes for tall busty women, probably everyone.

Are legs showing seen as more acceptable because of this?
Rather than cleavage? A status thing? Yes I have had a glass of wine WineBlush

This will also be why I can't get a rich man. I'm too fat and my legs are too short. Short sturdy irish peasant stick her. Good for carrying things though even though I'm short, just load me up and watch me go. Very useful in house moving me Grin

What do you think?

TittyGolightly · 23/11/2017 19:42

It is no different to wearing a skirt that is too short or a man wearing trousers that are too tight or an unbuttoned shirt that shows his chest hair. No room for sexualised clothing in the work place unless you work in a strip club.

I agree, but where is the line? It’s subjective, isn’t it? One of my colleagues is menopausal and around 5 stone overweight (by her reckoning). She dresses in Lycra most days. It doesn’t bother me, but others may find it unprofessional. There are lots of short skirts and thick tights around the place - again, no complaints made aboit them regardless of the size of the legs on show. And the manager concerned always wears gorgeous dresses, but never any tights. Is her bare leg skin okay because it’s far from her face? Is her skirt being 3 inches above the knee okay, but 4 obscene?

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TittyGolightly · 23/11/2017 19:39

Yes. It’s a headache. It’s the manager that has had a mastectomy. The comments about inappropriate cleavage came from others to the manager.

Manager spoke with the individual who took it very badly and is apparently furious that biology she didn’t choose is affecting how she is seen professionally. She was sent home early with a copy of the dress code and told to ring her Union.

Tomorrow will be fun. Confused

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Ttbb · 23/11/2017 19:38

It is no different to wearing a skirt that is too short or a man wearing trousers that are too tight or an unbuttoned shirt that shows his chest hair. No room for sexualised clothing in the work place unless you work in a strip club.

KittiKat · 23/11/2017 19:33

One thing that strikes me which is really sad, is that you said the person who complained has had a double mastectomy. I think you are going to have a big headache on your hands. It's not going to be good which ever way it goes. Sad

TittyGolightly · 23/11/2017 19:19

UPDATE

A colleague had a call from the individual today. Sounds like the manager handled the situation quite badly and there’s a potential grievance going to come in.

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TittyGolightly · 22/11/2017 22:29

Count I promise if I see anything like this specimen I’ll report it. Grin

Professional boobs?
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NotMeNoNo · 22/11/2017 20:08

A surprising amount of clothes have too low a neckline. If you are large you do not want to wear clothes with high tight necklines (they never fit anyway) so you end up trying to find necklines scooped just below the collar bone. But most of them are quite low. I never wear v necks now.

Also clothes which look fine standing in front of the mirror can gape unexpectedly when leaning forward over a meeting table.

Orangesox · 22/11/2017 20:08

Massive norks day supporter here! I have an emergency sewing kit in the car for nork-escape emergencies Grin

Have a right mare keeping mine in place on occasion. I work in a male dominated industrial business - when I fully cover them up I apparently look dowdy or matronly. If I wear anything moderately feminine, I'm tarted up or told I'm trying to impress the boss Confused I find it infuriating and demoralising that as an experienced health professional I'm largely judged on the amount of cleavage that I have on show, or if I've put make up on

TitaniasCloset · 22/11/2017 19:57

I support massive norks day. Sometimes my G cups just like to escape. I’m always pinning the front of dresses.

TittyGolightly · 22/11/2017 19:51

We seem to have awareness days for pretty much everything else, I might request a “massive norks” awareness day. Everyone can wear a J cup bra filled with bean bags and see how they get on!

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Nyx1 · 22/11/2017 19:39

I think I'd be favour of saying that workplaces just have to get over the fact some women have large breasts.

Nyx1 · 22/11/2017 19:38

I totally understand the problem

When I was flat chested I could wear a V neck and not be accused of anything

now, I'm all right in the V neck while seated at a desk...reach under the desk to get trainers out for going home and suddenly I'm flashing people. I can see why it's unfair that clothing on one person is "revealing" and the same item on another is not. And that only applies to women....so I do think it's probably a sexist comment to make. not having a go at you OP, but I'm wondering how it works the other way - if a woman complained that her line manager had told her to stop wearing V necks but not said that to anyone else?

TittyGolightly · 22/11/2017 17:25

The manager who came to me always wears smart over the knee dresses and heels. Never wears tights. Presumably that level of skin exposure is professional where a couple of inches of boob isn’t. Hmm

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CountFosco · 22/11/2017 17:05

Here's a question, what would be considered too tight or revealing for a man? Can you tell me about a man who got disciplined because his trousers split when he bent over or because the buttons on his shirt were straining over his bellybutton. Or a man was sent home because his shorts were too short (rather than too casual)? We all know that has never happened because neither of those are actually considered tight or revealing. It's a definition determined by the male gaze on the female form.

CountFosco · 22/11/2017 16:58

There was a thread on S&B recently about the trouble with being hourglass shape and how men react to you predominantly as a sexual creature. We don't know if it was men or women who complain but I do suspect that a woman who had a smaller chest would not be criticised in this way. I also think any legal policy will not specify how many inches of flesh can be revealed.

TittyGolightly · 22/11/2017 16:56

Policy is out of date but just states “clothing must be appropriate and not overly tight or revealing”.

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Dozer · 22/11/2017 16:46

What is your policy then?!

TittyGolightly · 22/11/2017 16:44

Not sure if it’s relevant but the manager who came to me is female (and has had a double mastectomy) and she didn’t say whether those who had commented were male or female.

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OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 22/11/2017 15:20

Women with smaller boobs definitely get away with wearing lower cut tops. I dress for warmth but have had a shirt button come undone accidentally and no-one blinked because it wasn't showing cleavage, whereas a woman with more average sized boobs would be.

That being said, I think there is a standard of dress at work which applies roughly to men and women - I'd definitely be more uncomfortable sat opposite a man with his chest out, than a woman with the same.

Noneedforasitter · 22/11/2017 14:57

Sophia Loren proved that it isn’t only men who have a problem with this when she met Jayne Mansfield.