Autism and Trans

From the article:

Ensure that a pupil’s expression is not automatically attributed to autism, e.g. clothing preferences or hair length seen as a sensory need, or behaviours explained as special interests.

Because there just has to be a reason for a girl to have short hair or a boy to wear pink and it must be attributed to something.

Wtf?

I'm not dismissing your personal experience Penny but I can see how there could be a strong correlation based on my own experience.

My teen DS has ASD (not Aspergers, he's a bit lower functioning than that) along with other disabilities. He is very black and white about certain things.

He has a gender non conforming younger brother and a lot of things about this really seem to upset him. His brother had his ear pierced a while back and my ASD son just wouldn't let the subject drop for weeks because to him earrings = girl things. It didn't matter how much we all said anyone can wear earrings he had difficulty accepting it. This is just one of numerous examples of him not being able to understand his brother's POV.

Now he himself has typical 'boy' interests - football and video games but I can imagine if he didn't, going by his mindset, that he might question whether he was really a girl particularly if prompted by information found on the internet.

Re this comment > A lot of people on the Autistic spectrum are prone to black and white thinking, generalising and stereotyping < someone made early in this thread. This could not be further from the truth. People on the spectrum tend to be more literal, but not more black and white. Stereotyping? Not sure how that has been attached to autism. It just highlights to me the lack of awareness about autism when comments are made like this. As for the autism & trans link... its very odd because I have a autistic partner and child, my partner is in IT and in the last 20 plus years I have been around so many autistic people in both the IT and Art community and I do not get why or how there is this connection. I have been around mostly those with apsergers, and they are far too smart to believe we can change biological sex. This might be something in younger people, but then that would corollate with the overall increase in younger people, not necessarily autism.

Also yes I've noticed correlation with eating disorder and autism.

I believe the wrong approach is taken in solving as a medical or mental issue. It is a getting to understand yourself issue - lots of undiagnosed girls on spectrum are very confused. An ASD diagnosis with support will help make sense of their lives and recognise their need for more down time to process things.

As mother of diagnosed DC with ASD (and wider family members) - I have noted over the years that a lot of trans people I have come across are on the spectrum. Just did a search and pleased to see it is recognised by others as I've not come across anyone else mentioning this.

The looking for an explanation as to why they don't fit in does indeed make ASD teens particularly vulnerable, and can lead to devastating consequences if gender realignment is undertaken looking for a solution to 'not fitting in'.

I think it helps with ASD children to help them see they can be fluid in who they like, but that doesn't define them or mean they're in the wrong body. I have a dd currently exposed to this at school and without fail it is the clearly autistic girls who have latched on to it at her SS grammar school (I mention this as here is no problem with being bit geeky or a bit different IME).

It is bizarre that children of 13 are being groomed to define as lesbian or trans at schools, but this is what is happening. I see it an opportunity for open discussion, but some girls' parents dismissed the issue leaving the child unable to explore and work out whether there is an agenda at work.

Dd definitely has the male brain that is common with autistic girls, as do other girls in the family - but whom have then grown up to be comfortable in their body. How awful if they'd been exposed to trans pressure st school. Keep the conversation open with your ASD children. We discuss having crushes on girls as normal part of admiring someone.

ASD presents with a 'spiky' profile ie can look 12, have intelligence of a 16 year old, but the emotional development of someone aged 9 (this is an accurate description of my DD). Once you add hormones into the mix, it is a difficult time. The emotional development more or less catches up in HFA probably about age 25 I've noticed and people become more comfortable in who they are.

Always told my kids that there is no rush with deciding anything - just keep an open mind and don't label yourself to find an identity just wait and find out for yourself.

After a bit of googling on twitter, I suspect but can't be sure that the person who wrote this might be trans or at the very least is very pro trans ideology, liking the types of pieces written by Paris lees etc.

pregnant professionals - eh?! Just professionals

Though they're likely to be v on the ball if I'm honest!

It's extremely worrying my and I am really quite horrified by that guidance.

I've said time and time again, this needs to be comprehensively and sensitively dealt with at an early age by schools and pregnant professionals, just like with any child with ASD benefits from early interventions. Basic social stories - when you do the proper training by Carol Gray, (as also any other training eg pecs and TEACCH) she spends a lot of time talking about how autistic children struggle with categories. Social stories are there to widen social contextual understanding eg "sometimes boys like to wear pink" - this is the level it is at in primary stages. When it gets to the teen levels things are so much harder, especially if the child in question has begun to find out more via the media.

A child and a teen with autism is very vulnerable outside the trans stuff, due to their social communication concerns. We've had safeguarding training umpteen times where we discuss just how naive and gullible our pupils are.

Also though, parental attitudes really impact good and bad. I've seen both (not just in the trans theme, racism also comes through from the parents and that's very hard to tackle) but I've also heard pupils discuss sex equality, homosexuality etc in very positive ways, due to the influence of their older siblings and parents.

Hence information parents access online MUST be decent. I wonder if the NAS are aware of the transgender trend pack as it strikes me as incredibly important that they are made aware of it.

They know about the link but they don't see anything to be concerned about. How to even tackle that attitude? Instead I am seen as unsupportive because I have vetoed puberty blockers

It is all just so so disturbing.

That's terrible Nellie - you are completely correct to be concerned and it is very worrying that the professionals at the Tavistock aren't understanding how vulnerable someone with ASD is to making a huge mistake that they will massively regret. It is not unsupportive to veto puberty blockers. You are being supportive of your child - but that is not the same thing as agreeing with your child - who is not capable of making a fully informed decision here.

Another parent of asd trans teen DD here. Mentioned concerns re asd and high prevalence of gender dysphoria to Tavistock workers DD sees, to be met with polite indifference. They know about the link but they don't see anything to be concerned about. How to even tackle that attitude? Instead I am seen as unsupportive because I have vetoed puberty blockers.

This thread is really important.

I started to think I was trans myself before I realised I was HFASD about the same time as hitting peak trans. ASD women are especially vulnerable to being funnelled into believing that transition to a male identity will resolve their issues. It will not.

Transgender trend sorry, not gender trender

The goal - when you say transboys in that context are you meaning girls who have transitioned/now identify as male?

Girls who identify as boys. One of the large gender critical transkids sites (not sure if it was gender trender or 4thwavenow) said that they had never had a FtM come to them who was not Autistic or had suffered sexual abuse. It stuck with me. A lot of FtM transitioner stories do mention sexual abuse too, and it makes sense..its 'safer' to be a boy/man. Even though it doesn't work out that way.

Doug, anxiety and depression is a big factor among teens and adults with ASD because the world is so hard to navigate and understand, especially ime those who are 'more aware'. A few parents I know have said that it's almost a blessing their child doesn't know they're autistic as those who are more aware find it all so much harder.

Anxiety is frequently a big barrier to learning too.

I'm trying to find out who this Joe Butler person is.

I teach children with autism, previously was in mainstream. I've only come across any 'gender issues' with children on the spectrum- in fact, the rigidity goes both ways as I've had a child refuse to do work that he decided was too 'girly' (he'd come from mainstream.)

The main child I'm thinking of - we didn't do any of this. He was allowed to enjoy his passion for girly things and yes it was a special interest. But his narrow black and white thinking was challenged eg refused to play football in pe till I showed him the women's football team and a male team dressed in pink. Then happily did it - he had absorbed very narrow stereotypes from tv (american tween shows) and girls around him. He had begun to latch on to sex changes etc but seems to have seen the right people and later on decided he was happy in his body, and I think gay.

I wish I could explain more but it's probably not appropriate. But I'd suggest that true professionals such as an ed psych, play therapist or speech therapist would disagree with this guidance.

What's most upsetting is that this is under the umbrella of the NAS which that site seems to be linked to. And we were confused about what to do for the best so might have referred to something like this.

Sorry, having reread my post I apologise if I caused any offence.

I find the current transmovement so worrying because I see how easily I could have believed it when I was younger. The constant feeling of being different but not knowing why. When Lily Madigan tweeted about how "half of transgender youths are attempting suicide" it just made me think actually that's possibly autistic youths you're talking about there. If you just type into Google 'autistic people and suicide' or 'autistic people and depression' there's a fair amount of articles that talk of a correlation.

Gender is an arbitrary social expectation, another invisible hurdle to trip over.

Completely agree with lilpeeky's post, you've described my teenage years very well!
I'm so pleased trans wasn't a thing thirty years ago, I dread to think how my life would have panned out if it was.

Yy to everything that everyone has already said (I think)

Marking my place as another autistic mner.

It *is

This is one of those things where it's clear that there's an issue, the medical community knows that there's an issue, but they've completely abandoned their caretaking role at the behest of pressure groups.

This was where I came to it too @Lilpeeky. But I go a step further. I think the prevalence of ASD among GNC people is proof that gender is externally imposed through social signalling. Such that many autistic people are immune to gender. They are just themselves and don't internalise the expectations of others because they don't detect the social signalling as toddlers because they can't. I know that many aspects of autism cause great suffering but I actively celebrate my dd's gender immunity. It one of her many autism super powers.

My dd declared herself trans about 6 months before her asd diagnosis at 14

She's now not trans and is new romantic

She lives her life playing different roles and trans was one of them

I shudder to think where we would be if someone had agreed with her that she was indeed a boy trapped in the wrong body

Dr Zucker says "It is possible that kids who have a tendency to get obsessed or fixated on something may latch on to gender. Just because kids are saying something doesn't necessarily mean you accept it, or that it's true, or that it could be in the best interests of the child." Zucker was forced to resign from his gender clinic for daring to suggest maybe there are other approaches that aren't whole-hearted enthusiasm to push the child into a new gender.

Mermaids called him "backwards".

This link really needs to be investigated more

Unfortunately studies looking into the link between trans and autism have all so far been aggressively closed down for being transphobic. People forced to resign.