CPR

Fizzy, it’s not about the conviction rate IMO. The ‘case’ would never get prosecuted. The fear is that they will be accused of inappropriate behaviour and that even if it goes no further than that (which it won’t), then the accusation, gossip, time and general stress involved in defending that would be very upsetting.

It was in the Mail.

Oy gevalt!

In what possible world do people really believe, given the conviction rate for sexual assault, that a person would be prosecuted for performing CPR on a woman?

Who would bring this prosecution? Does anyone have any actual case where this has happened?

And well, as to underwires poking through, that's a sobering thought, I will have to make sure I keep mine in good repair just in case.

If I recall correctly, the general public is under no legal obligation to attempt to help anyone in distress.

*In England and Wales.

You are under no obligation to help, that is correct. However, you will be supported by the law if you do help.

Some information here from the Resuscitation Council (UK).

Call 999 and they will talk you through it anyway.

That said, as I said, I think it is an issue and with better public CPR training we could maybe start to address it. In the current climate lots of people are concerned about accusations and complaints.

If I recall correctly, the general public is under no legal obligation to attempt to help anyone in distress. In fact, attempting to help someone may create questions of negligence.

So OP, what do you think is the answer? Women stop reporting sexual harassment so that they get CPR in an emergency? That's a fairly bleak choice and it's a shame you seem to be implying that it's up to women to change their behaviour here rather than men, who are the ones actually in the wrong.

Yes, being a Good Samaritan can be risky for all sorts of reasons. But if you withhold CPR from a woman because you're so afraid of a lawsuit, your moral compass is seriously wonky.

We won't stop women reporting. We will work to change the behaviour of the men doing the harassing as they are the ones at fault here.

OlennasWimple

Underwired bras do not (should not) have metal touching skin, therefore not a problem.

People are defibbed on metal trollies and beds all the time, but they are insulated from it.

If it is an old bra, and I think everyone has had a wire pop out then it may burn but people are surprisingly OK about a chest burn if they are alive.

GTN patches - they are another thing

Elendon, that is complete misinformation and could cost someone their life or their brain function. I’d be interested to know your source.

Absolutely, the odds of CPR working are not good. However, it can and does work sometimes, especially if combined with defibrillation (which can also be done by members of the public if an AED is available). Your best chance of survival is to be in the type of cardiac arrest that a defib will work on, to have early defibrillation and good bystander CPR.

I asked in training about those electric pad thingies and underwired bras. We had been told to remove jewelry so I assumed that a bra would be similarly problematic. The trainer looked a bit sheepish and mumbled something about most bras not having enough metal in them to cause a problem

An ordinary member of the public should NEVER attempt CPR on anyone, regardless of gender, unless specifically asked to do so by someone who is trained - until the ambulance arrives. If you have been trained to do so, always have someone else to take over, because it's bloody hard work to try to restart a heart and you will break a few ribs in the process. A heart is a heart.

So yes OP, give over.

And yes, CPR does work

In the UK fewer than 10% of all the people in whom a resuscitation attempt is made outside hospital survive. Improving this figure is a major priority for the RC (UK), the Department of Health, ambulance services and voluntary aid organisations

www.resus.org.uk/faqs/faqs-cpr/

Meant to say im also sure the majority of men would not do anything.

I've met a few male paramedics for example and they don't bat an eye lid at what parts of the body they see when dealing with the patients...

What a sorry state of affairs.

I'm sure there are men who would take full advantage.

Im.also sure there are probably women who would kick up a fuss about being touched when it was innocent.

Don't think the answer is to just do nothing though.

I guess being female I've got it a bit easier. I've had to help a few people over the years. Not cpr thank God but when dealing with emergencies you really don't stop and think about where your hands are.

I do think it's very sad that men would actively not do anything rather than risk accusations. I'd have to be alive to accuse you after all.

Maybe this is where performance parenting style action comes in.

"Hi I'm giles I'm just going to do X" that way anyone around you kinda knows what and why you are doing what you are doing?

I find it hard to believe somebody would be charged with sexual assault for trying to help an unconscious person, but I guess it's possible.

I remember somebody telling me about a case where a girl was trying to sue her rescuer who had inadvertently touched her whilst saving her from drowning, although it may well have just been opportunism.

My late uncle worked for a small metropolitan children's charity and told me that he wasn't able to pick up and dust off a child who'd fallen and grazed their knee etc for similar reasons. I also have a female teacher friend with a student prone to wetting herself and she isn't allowed to help her dress - has to
stand in the doorway with door half open and let the child dress herself.

I don't see an easy solution aside from some manner of video monitoring.

And if some men are too stupid to give women CPR, us women need to all learn how to do it for each other!

MrsFionaCharming size of breasts and bras is irrelevant. Please don’t be put off.

The theory is to maintain circulation by pressing in the centre of the chest, and depressing the chest cavity by 1 to 2 inches.

And yes, CPR does work.
It virtually never ' revives' people - that's not the purpose. The purpose is to keep someone alive until paramedics/defibs arrive.

I believe that most people’s biggest fear with regard to administering CPR is a reluctance to perform mouth to mouth.

Mouth to mouth doesn’t actually confer significant benefit in a witnessed arrest, where the casualty usually has adequate oxygen on board prior to their collapse

The British Heart Foundation is strongly pushing chest compressions only. They can be performed on fully dressed individuals so sex/gender is irrelevant. The outcomes are the Same, but people are more likely to attempt cpr if they only have to perform chest compressions.

Watch the Vinnie Jones sovereign videos on you tube if you want to know how

So because men rape millions of women every year, other men let women who need CPR die? Wow. Men are really not up to much eh

On an even more vaguely related note, you are meant to remove underwire bras before using an AED... Definitely room for misunderstanding there...

On a vaguely related note, I think there should be CPR dummies with breasts, because I imagine it requires slightly different hand placement, especially in large breasted women.

(I’ve asked a few instructors about doing cpr in women, most don’t have an answer, one said that breasts flop to the side when lying down, which isn’t true if you’re in a bra, and one told me to look inside a woman’s bra before doing CPR in case she had hypodermic needles hidden in there?!)

Xpost with a few of you. I also advise people to loudly state what they doing in case things are misconstrued. We should not belittle people’s fears on this one, rather should be taking steps to allay those fears. Assuming we want any CPR when we collapse of course.

A scene of a man leaning down, undressing a women and having his head close to her chest to assess breathing and sons of life absolutely could arouse suspicion. People will think the worst of anything.

Absolutely there are parallels with people approaching upset / injured children.