James O'Brien: what a twat

But the patriarchy does not just hurt women and girls.

No, it hurts men and boys too. But given it hurts women and girls more, across the globe - why is it feminism's duty to sort it out for men as well? Why isn't James O'Brien taking on the men who threaten (and hurt, and in some places even kill) trans people, who make them feel unsafe in men's changing rooms? Why is his contribution to this just to shout down women?

when there are groups like 'Women Against Feminism' you have to ask why

Same reason there were groups like the Women's Anti-Suffrage League a hundred years ago. Not new. Where are you getting your information about feminism, Ruth? You do seem to have a lot of US-specific MRA talking points immediately to hand, and while I'm sure you are merely a good-hearted entirely genuine woman who's not an MRA yourself - who would doubt it? - MRAs do tend to lie.

Plus, if we're going to look overseas to other countries to pull out examples about the US military and US women's voting rights (?! I have no idea) and the views of US organisations like RAINN, why limit yourself to the US? Why not look at FGM in Somalia, or child marriage in Nepal?

What lack of empathy do you mean? James O'Brien's?

Ruth well done for keeping going!

Virtue signalling is such an odd insult I always think.

Amazing how the trans debates here almost only focus on mtf.

Women and men have different vulnerabilities as said before. In the western world boy foetuses are more likely to die in pregnancy, baby boys are more likely than die from illness and being killed, boys are likely to be hit more and harder than their girl contempories. They are more likely to have disabilities including developmental disabilities. They are more likely to need mental health services as children. They are more likely to die in accidents and from suicide as they get older. They are more likely to die younger. And there are many other ways in which they are vulnerable.

They are also more likely to be perpetrators of violence including sexual violence and they are more likely to end up in prison.

Of course girls and women have other different vulnerabilities inclidung at the hands of men. But the patriarchy does not just hurt women and girls.

People who feel they are born into the wrong body are more likely to have autistic traits than those who don’t, they are also more likely to have been in the care system and had complex histories. As I said yesterday, the biggest rise at the moment is in born girls feeling they are in the wrong body. I find it hard to understand the lack of empathy.

Just want to say I'm baffled at Ruth's idea of "toxic feminists". The ones I know are funny and warm and wise and brilliant. They're angry, yeah, but why wouldn't you be?
^^
This
UnbridledRuth
When 93% of UK women don't want to call themselves a feminist and when there are groups like 'Women Against Feminism' you have to ask why
No actually, we dont.

I suggest you post that on a thread where it is relevant to the subject matter. This one is about James O'Brien.

You're welcome!

When 93% of UK women don't want to call themselves a feminist and when there are groups like 'Women Against Feminism' you have to ask why.

*long, boring posts - with no relevance to the OP.

Point proven.

I think most of us already have you pegged as an MRA, Ruth. So I don't think I'll bother reading the rest of your very long post. (Another sign of the MRAs - they type overly long boring posts).

I'll probably just be called an MRA (in fact may already have been done) but I judge people based on their actions not what they say. Whilst people use the 'not all feminist' argument I'm not sure it would be so defensible if a political party had a small minority of Nazi sympathisers who went unchallenged.

I've just seen too many things I find distasteful. Feminists tend to scoff at men's rights and anybody who challenges this is an MRA. I'm talking about things like International Men's Day getting cancelled at York University the day after a male student committed suicide due to pressure from feminists. People like Jess Philips also scoffing at the idea on the basis that her colleagues are all male (as if these privileged MPs are the guys killing themselves).

I also remember watching the Warren Farrell protest. Young guy saying "my friend killed himself and I'm just looking for answers" whilst feminists scream "you're scum" in his face. Same for another guy who said "I just try and hear as many views as possible." Scum too.

I also remember reading about a local student (George Lawler I think) who dared to say that he didn't need to be told it was wrong to rape - pretty much RAINN's view. He was shouted out of his lectures for being "a rapist". Yes he was a bit silly putting himself in the line of fire but a rapist...really?

And the celebration of people like Emma Sulkowicz as a women's hero despite the accused having being cleared twice and the evidence looking a bit dodgy - e.g. her sending him friendly messages about attending a party the day after she was allegedly raped.

Feminists discussing reducing the male population - even if meant
tongue in cheek, a man would never get away with this.

Feminists killing Erin Pizzey's dog due to her suggesting that women can be as violent as men.

Little acknowledgement of the fact that US men have to sign up for the military draft to get the same voting rights of women.

I also read a recent thread on here where a guy was asking for advice from SAHM as his wife desperately wanted to leave the workforce. You'd think he'd asked for advice on how best to beat her. People were furiously asking him "why don't YOU leave the workforce" despite him having the explained that she wanted to be a SAHM.

I'm probably coming over as an MRA but I find that many 'feminists' seem to view the supporting of men and women's rights as mutually exclusive and will actively challenge attempts to help men. Having had a male friend commit suicide in recent years I struggle to align with this.

Yes, I do.

What does voting for Trump have to do with this thread?

Derailing for Dummies was written just for you Ruth eh? Dummies being the operative word.

I'm talking about the tendency to lump 'women' together. What about the majority of white women in the US who voted for Trump? Do you think they have more in common with left-leaning women than with their husbands?

Just saw this post

"There’s also the fact that “women” is a huge bracket encompassing many people and many vastly different situations - part of why I dislike the umbrella approach used by a lot of modern feminists."

It's not just modern feminists who are focussed on women I mean the whole feminist movement for always has been about women. And girls. This is a problem somehow?

Saying "feminism is about women and girls" is an "umbrella approach" and should be binned?

This is a joke?

Just want to say I'm baffled at Ruth's idea of "toxic feminists". The ones I know are funny and warm and wise and brilliant. They're angry, yeah, but why wouldn't you be? And I've noticed many only really get it when they're a bit older. I had my first child in my early 20s and grew up working class which fast-tracked the awareness I think. Money can insulate women from sexism up to a point, as can putting off childbearing. It still hits though, like a fecking truck eventually.

Only read first two posts - I always tried to change with one hand and hold the curtain with the other when I was teen / young woman. That's normal isn't it? Is he saying this is crazed and paranoid? Hasn't got a clue has he and oh what a surprise he's a bloke why would he know what women and girls do in changing rooms?

I suppose he can find out easily enough now.

Will now read on...

morning, oh I see, you will get into it!

I can't publicly shame a person I know in my professional life. I might as well print myself a P45. Then again, I'm not in the habit of public shaming anyway really, I mostly use Twitter in a less angry way!

PS well I know him well enough to chat if we meet in the street but that's partly the joy of "pretending to like people you meet through work networks" thing isn't it. I don't mean we are good mates or anything, though I certainly didn't think he'd be like this on this issue.

morning - too old? I've made friends on Twitter who are 70+. I know some people just hate Twitter, that's more likely to be it.

I'm going to email him tomorrow. I know him through work. When I first met him, I thought "oh you aren't a wanker like on the show" but apparently he is.

I pondered it because you know, work links, daring to be transphobic etc etc. But yes, I'm going to email him. It will take me ages to draft it but it will be from my personal email of course.