James O'Brien: what a twat

God, that has wound me up. I normally like and respect James O'B.

But #HimToo just about sums this up. Another man telling women how to feel, that they're being hysterical. Another man shoving the Not All Men shit at us - outrageously bad behaviour in the context of the news on sexual assault recently.

He needs to read Shrodinger's rapist, rather than be interrogating women about being uncomfortable changing next to men. FFS. There is no hope is there?

@UnbridledRuth However, I think (well, speculate) that a lot of trans people might feel this a barrier to fully integrating / a reminder that they can never truly be the gender they wish. Not saying they deserve to overrule women on this, just that I think they would rather 'live' as their chosen gender and will very much seek to be allowed to enter the according space.

Can you point me to the official requirements list for "being a woman"? I've been on this planet for many decades and nobody ever told me there was paperwork I needed to complete, so I've just gone about being a female human in my own way. Which I could no more quantify, label and name than you can.

So this claim that trans people "can never truly be the gender they wish" is utter nonsense as it's not a thing you can define. Unless of course you mean skirts and lipstick. In which case you'll have to tell me where I hand in my gender.

However, I think (well, speculate) that a lot of trans people might feel this a barrier to fully integrating / a reminder that they can never truly be the gender they wish. Not saying they deserve to overrule women on this, just that I think they would rather 'live' as their chosen gender and will very much seek to be allowed to enter the according space.

UnbridledRuth you are right, alas. I've been at a conference where they provided three sets of loos - women's loos, men's loos and gender-neutral loos. This was a conference with a very active no-harrassment policy, and where the gender-neutral loos were busy and safe. Even though the women's loos were quite out of the way and a bit awkward to get to, the most politically aggressive trans-identified males (either identifying as transwomen or identifying as non-binary) at this conference made a point of going to the women's loos, and only the women's loos. It was about validation, and establishing territory, not about "a safe place to pee".

In reply to Ruth but re Annie's post...
I don't get to events often due to my disabilities and not having the funds (being on benefits). I know a few women in similar circumstances.
I am eternally grateful to the "privileged" women fighting on my behalf.

(especially privileged middle class women who so often seem to be the feminists I encounter)

I am so tired of posts like this (in this case from UnbridledRuth, though they are pretty common so it's not just her) which, when unable to come up with any argument, say "oh, it's just privileged women whining about this issue anyway".

Well, that completely erases and dismisses and ignores all the unprivileged women who talk about this, are angry about this, are trying to protect women's spaces. And with good reason. Who do you think are the women most likely to end up in prison, sharing a cell with a rapist who has a penis but who calls himself "Paris" or "Davina" or "Jessica"? Not "privileged middle class women", I can tell you.

And the DV services, the rape crisis services, the women's refugee services - all my life I've seen women, working class women, with no money, no connections, still slogging away to establish, fund and protect those services, because nobody else is going to do it for them. And here comes a bunch of men coming to take those services away from these not-privileged, not-middle class women.

And you know what? Being "privileged" and "middle class" has never protected women from male violence. Why should those women who would come under this label have to put up with surrendering their safety, privacy and access to services because a bunch of even more privileged, middle-class men want to seize everything for themselves, because god forbid any woman, of any class, put herself and her sister first for once?

Datun

I haven't said half the things you state I have. If you read my posts you'll see that I acknowledge the potential threat to women.

Morningrunner

I'd have no issue with that tbh. However, I think (well, speculate) that a lot of trans people might feel this a barrier to fully integrating / a reminder that they can never truly be the gender they wish. Not saying they deserve to overrule women on this, just that I think they would rather 'live' as their chosen gender and will very much seek to be allowed to enter the according space.

Yy datun. To the whole post but particularly...
Mtt are famous for doing things, ftt famous for having babies.

@jellyfrizz The solution to is to look at the reasons why trans women are scared to use the male toilet and deal with that. Treat the problem rather than the symptoms.

Sometimes, the simplest solution is staring you in the face and it just takes someone to say it out loud. I use this reasoning about rapists all the time - teach them not to rape to start with. Sod off with all the resigned "rapers gonna rape, so women have to protect themselves" bollocks. No idea why I hadn't simply linked it to this as well.

UnbridledRuth

You’re being illogical in your argument. You’re claiming that TIMS are at risk in male bathrooms, from men, but women aren’t at risk from men.

You’re claiming that women need protection, from men. But men aren’t a threat to women.

You’re claiming that TIMS do not have male privilege. Even if you don’t understand the class analysis that underlines feminism, this is patently wrong.

Bruce Jenner, Frank Maloney, Zoey Tur. All of them have benefited from male privilege, and are now feted for identifying as women. Not actually doing anything. Just identifying as.

The first woman celebrated as being in the Fortune 500, is a man identifying as a woman.

The first woman celebrated on the front line, is a man identifying as a woman.

The first women celebrated for directing a trilogy, are men, identifying as women.

Woman of the year, was a man identifying as a woman.

Men are taking the place of women on sports teams, because they identify as women. Taking the place of natal born women, and beating other natal born women.

Men, identifying as women, are writing articles about feminism, where they expect men identifying as women, to be centred. And the problems that come with identifying as a woman to be paramount, At the expense of issues that affect natal born women.

One fetishistic man managed to create a shit storm of controversy because he told Topshop that it is he who decides which changing room to use and they need to sort their shit out. And he doesn’t even identify as a woman. Just woman adjacent.

Perhaps you can give me the name of a single famous transman? One who managed to magically acquire male privilege by dint of their identity and achieved giddy heights of success?

I suspect not.

Because only three transmen in this country have made the papers. And that was for giving birth and being raped.

Men who transition acquire extra privilege. Women who transition carry on giving birth and getting raped.

Feminism is not about a feeling. It’s not a competition. It’s not about man hating.

Feminism is about analysis which results in statistics. It’s nothing if not logical.

And lay off on Ruth, it is important to discuss this whatever your view.

Trying to actually find a solution that accommodates both natal women and the trans woman who is terrified of using the men's toilet is going to much more productive than talking about sweating leering sex predators and 'men in dresses'.

The solution to is to look at the reasons why trans women are scared to use the male toilet and deal with that. Treat the problem rather than the symptoms.

Beyond, yes my DH has come out with this and I was flummoxed.

James O'Brien should read out Kellie's letter to him on his next broadcast. Or be sacked.

And fuck off Ruth, you're arguing with people you're out of depth with and coming across as contradictory and ignorant.

In my head, I can see that people who believe in souls could potentially see them as sexed. What baffles me is the number of atheists who say "born in the wrong body" without it occurring to them that this means believing in the concept of a soul

Thanks beyond

I had visions of him listening to a bit of soul music before the main event

Very scary image

I dont think ive heard any catholic saying sex has soul, having said that i only really know my mum and the pope so that might explain it

Possibly helpful towards the "soul" bit, I assumed JoB was atheist - which is why I was particularly confused about it - but it seems he's actually a practicing catholic.

I think sex is a protected characteristic.

It's a 'discussion' forum not a echo chamber.

And how generous of you to come and play devil’s advocate with us. We are truly blessed with your presence.

So why isn’t sex a protected characteristic?

I'm not saying I'm 100% right. I will happily defer to a more logical view but am just playing devil's advocate.

Sleighbellend,

Not at all.

The issue as I see it is that gender reassignment is now a protected characteristic alongside race, so using violence statistics becomes problematic when we can't do the same for other protected characteristics. For example, it would be considered unacceptable to argue that certain ethnicities should be banned from buying guns due to gun violence stats.