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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Saying feminism is about equality was an error...

32 replies

QuentinSummers · 14/11/2017 16:40

Because now we get this claptrap

metro.co.uk/2017/11/12/why-i-dont-identify-as-being-a-feminist-7073111/amp/

Feminism is about the RIGHT OF WOMEN TO BE EQUAL TO MEN. It is not about identifying spurious areas where women could possiblt get the better deak and claiming that means feminists have a victim complex.

I'm really fed up of "shock jock" women pandering to the patriarchy with this kind of gubbins.

I'm assuming keeping men onside is important to her role as a sex expert, sex blogger and writer of "provocative" columns about women but really.

m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/author/katy-horwood/

People who complain about feminists calling some women "handmaidens", this is what we are referring to.

Idiot.

OP posts:
SomeDyke · 14/11/2017 18:04

"I, like most women, have been winked at, flirted with and wolf-whistled."
..........and not all of us liked it, or thought that it was something we should have had to tolerate, or try to explain to younger women and girls how to deal with it. Don't mix up consensual, social interactions that can include flirting with all of these non-consensual interactions that despite superficially appearing to be the same actually aren't.

And please stop ignoring the many, many statements from women who don't view these things as okay, as well as the facts that show that women are disadvantaged because of their sex. Just because you personally feel you haven't been, and don't mind wolf whistles, doesn't mean the rest of us should just STFU..................

"whilst I’ve been wolf-whistled at in the street I’ve never felt victimized or threatened by the male attention, quite the opposite, I welcome the attention." As a lesbian, I never welcomed it. Or do my experiences not count? Or is it somehow okay for chaps to assume all women are possibly heterosexual and whistle anyway?

Lots of women and girls say they find this behaviour threatening and objectionable. Why do you think it is okay to ignore their experience just 'cos you find your ego flattered by it, and because the men seem to like doing it? Why do men need to do this, what would they realistically lose by stopping doing it, and what would the rest of us have to gain????

AssassinatedBeauty · 14/11/2017 17:56

It's a vomit of uncritical unthinking nonsense.

DJBaggySmalls · 14/11/2017 17:39

How do you know he was winking at you Katie? Poor man probably had conjunctivitis, or a nervous tic Grin

WhatWouldGenghisDo · 14/11/2017 17:35

It's understandable that women don't want to think of themselves as belonging to a servant / prey class

The annoying bit is the bit where they have to blame all the evidence that women are a servant / prey class on other, usually less fortunate, women

QuentinSummers · 14/11/2017 17:08

flora c&p for you
You’d struggle to meet a woman who didn’t agree with equal rights today.

However, recent studies would suggest that, despite this, a vast number of women don’t identify as being a feminist.

And I’m one of them.

Modern-day feminism, also known as fourth-wave feminism, has taken a different path to one that I can relate to and currently feels less about equality and more about shouting down all men and picking arguments that belittle the bigger picture.

Whilst I recognize that there are plenty of genuine, very real and very serious cases of sexual harassment, the fact that, according to a recent YouGov poll, 28% of 18 -24-year-olds consider a wink a form of sexual harassment makes my blood run cold.

The true goal of feminism is equality, not classing all men as misogynistic at best, or, should they glance in the wrong direction, sexual predators.

I, like most women, have been winked at, flirted with and wolf-whistled.

Men, who I haven’t fancied, have fancied me and made it known so.

Not offended (Picture: Getty)
I’ve also spent much of my life working with men.

But I’ve never felt that I’ve not been given an opportunity and overlooked because of my gender.

Quite the opposite – on the rare occasion I have felt undermined in the workplace, it is as much by women as it is by men and certainly never because I’m a woman.

And this is part of the reason I feel so alienated from the current feminist movement.

MORE: Wanting to spend most of your time with your partner doesn’t make you a bad feminist

Not all women have had negative experiences. Admit that, however, and many feminists will either insist you’re lying or that you are a traitor to your gender.

No, it’s just never something I’ve experienced and I refuse to shape myself into someone who has simply to suit the narrative.

Likewise, whilst I’ve been wolf-whistled at in the street I’ve never felt victimized or threatened by the male attention, quite the opposite, I welcome the attention.

And that’s not because I’m desperate for it – it’s because I see it as banter, and to categorize it as anything near to sexual harassment not only seems hysterical but also deeply undermines real cases of harassment.

Still not offended (Picture: Getty)
I can’t talk for all women and their personal experience. However, from my experience (Which is the only one I can reference) I think women are equal to men, and that in reality there are very few people who don’t regard us as so.

I’d go as far as to that argued that women have the upper hand a lot more than they give themselves credit for.

Many more women are climbing the career ladder as their partners stay at home, a woman is still far more likely to gain custody of her child after a divorce and if a woman claims harassment, a man is judged as immediately guilty before he’s had that chance to prove himself innocent.

A yes to equality (Picture: Getty)
Feminism should be about equality, not about seeking out a patriarchy that isn’t always present and playing the victim because of your gender.

To label a wink as harassment one minute but to claim empowerment the next makes no sense to me.

And it has nothing to do with ‘accepting the way that things are,’ it’s about gaining some perspective on what is important and not losing sight on how ‘empowered’ we already are as women.

Not all women are victims, and I won’t be a part of a movement that says they are.

So, until feminists stop dividing man and women by categorizing all men as part of the patriarchy, talking about a wink or a wolf-whistle in the same context as sexual harassment and ignoring the equal rights they already have, I, for one, am out.

OP posts:
FloraFox · 14/11/2017 17:01

I don't want to click the link but I know what you mean. It's just for column inches - it's all product.

Agree though about the equality point. I think "liberation" is better but it doesn't quite cover everything. At the end of the day, for people like this, it doesn't matter what words you use, it's the underlying principles they don't agree with.

WhatWouldGenghisDo · 14/11/2017 16:49

I'm alright jack