Trans guidelines for schools in Scotland

I was wondering the same thing. Its awful to think this guideline will be adhered to and that things are moving so rapidly. Even before any legislation changes

I am genuinely starting to wonder how soon it will be before it becomes national policy to remove children from gender critical parents and to send anyone who questions the transgender ideology on ‘gender re-education’ courses.

A year ago I wouldn’t even have contemplated posting a statement like that on a public forum.

Ugh how appalling. I'm in Scotland and agree that it's just a pathetic scramble to be seen as 'progressive' without any critical (or even logical) thought.

There is no evidence of knowledge about child development, adolescence, psychology, physical and sexual development etc anywhere. Just a determination to impose an adult model of transgender lifestyles onto children, no matter what the consequences

Yes, exactly.

It's quite breathtaking how little care is paid to the needs of individual children in all the advice / training about transgender children. Whether it is the needs of the individual transgender child (the only model being the brave child challenging stereotypes who needs uncritical support no matter what!) or the needs of any other child in a school / community.
There is no evidence of knowledge about child development, adolescence, psychology, physical and sexual development etc anywhere. Just a determination to impose an adult model of transgender lifestyles onto children, no matter what the consequences.

I note how hostile transgender pressure groups are to parents, generally taking a critical and suspicious approach. This document takes the same approach stating;
"A transgender young person may not have told their family about their gender identity. Inadvertent disclosure could cause needless stress for the young person or could put them at risk. Therefore, it is best to not disclose information to parents or carers without the young
person's permission"

Confidentiality is a tricky issue with teenagers. We teach adults NEVER to promise confidentiality to them. You may be able to keep something confidential but you may not. You need to discuss it in school and take advice according to your own school's safeguarding and pastoral procedures . You NEVER EVER tell teachers to keep a child's confidentiality no matter what. It always needs a discussion.

Such dangerous advice.

"If a transgender young person is sharing a room with their peers, there is no reason for parents or carers of the other young people to be informed "

But this fits in very neatly with the SNP named person proposal - where parents are described as gardeners and the named person is thought of as the head gardener. Still they can bask in the glow of their progressiveness.

I think schools will fear that they have to demonstrate (if challenged) that single sex provision is justified.

If guidance endorsed by local and Scottish government says you mustn't , and that you may face legal action, I imagine you might brick it.

I'm feeling benevolent though, so here are some more exceptions from the notes to the Equality Act 2010 which they could be inspired by. These might be more generally useful too.

Single-sex services: paragraph 27: Effect
...734. Single sex services are permitted where:...
they may be used by more than one person and a woman might object to the presence of a man (or vice versa);...

Gender reassignment: paragraph 28: Effect
739.This paragraph contains an exception to the general prohibition of gender reassignment discrimination in relation to the provision of separate- and single-sex services. Such treatment by a provider has to be objectively justified.

Communal accommodation: paragraph 3
Effect
997. This paragraph provides an exception to the general prohibition of sex and gender reassignment discrimination. It allows communal accommodation to be restricted to one sex only, as long as the accommodation is managed as fairly as possible for both men and women. It sets out factors which must be considered when restricting communal accommodation to one sex only, and provides that discriminatory treatment of transsexual people must be objectively justified.
998. Communal accommodation is defined as residential accommodation which includes shared sleeping accommodation which should only be used by members of one sex for privacy reasons.

Section 195: Sport
Effect
614. This section allows separate sporting competitions to continue to be organised for men and women where physical strength, stamina or physique are major factors in determining success or failure, and in which one sex is generally at a disadvantage in comparison with the other. It also makes it lawful to restrict participation of transsexual people in such competitions if this is necessary to uphold fair or safe competition, but not otherwise.

Schedule 9: Work: exceptions
Considerations of privacy or decency might require a public changing room or lavatory attendant to be of the same sex as those using the facilities.
A counsellor working with victims of rape might have to be a woman and not a transsexual person, even if she has a Gender Recognition Certificate, in order to avoid causing them further distress.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/pdfs/ukpgaen_20100015_en.pdf

Assigned
Im in Scotland too. Just today I was talking to a teacher about self identification implications for girls and women and she just didnt get it. Its horrifying.

In all seriousness, I am on the war path now.

There are NO parties I can vote for now. I will never vote for a party that supports this shit.

dj yes it does, from a Room of Our Own: The Equality Act 2010 is the main piece of law in England, Wales and Scotland to protect particular groups from disadvantage or unfair treatment

EA does not apply in NI

Schools should:...Not refuse to let a trans young person use a facility. This could be viewed as unlawful conduct

I highly suspect that's absolute bollocks. Posted this on the Topshop thread but the Equality Act 2010 has explanatory notes on the exceptions which allow single sex spaces.

738.These exceptions would allow:
a cervical cancer screening service to be provided to women only, as only women need the service;
a fathers’ support group to be set up by a private nursery as there is insufficient attendance by men at the parents’ group;
a domestic violence support unit to be set up by a local authority for women only but there is no men-only unit because of insufficient demand;
separate male and female wards to be provided in a hospital;
separate male and female changing rooms to be provided in a department store;
a massage service to be provided to women only by a female massage therapist with her own business operating in her clients’ homes because she would feel uncomfortable massaging men in that environment.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

Lots more excellent stuff here on the duties of public bodies: among them to:

Remove or minimise the disadvantages women suffer;
Take into account women’s needs that are different from men’s needs;
Encourage women to participate in public life and other activities in which their participation is low.
www.aroomofourown.org/a-uk-guide-for-non-lawyers-about-protecting-women-only-spaces-june-2016/

BTW I note that this Trans guidance document has been endorsed by all(?) Scottish local authorities as well as the Scottish govt and NHS Lothian, among others.

Does the Equality Act apply to Scotland? Biological sex and religion are both protected characteristics.

I absolutely new that Scotland would go down this route as Holyrood loves to view itself as progressive.

As an aside my children's high school is missing 3 maths teachers and the entire education system is going down the pan in Scotland. Still, At least I know where their priorities lie - letting boys and girls share overnight accommodation without parents being informed. What could possibly go wrong?

What impact does it have on a class if someone is suddenly treated as the opposite nsex?

Well, hopefully none other than the toilets. Girls and boys should be treated exactly the same.

And competetive sports.

Plus it's really unfair to put schools in this position regarding toilets, changing rooms and residential school trips. They'll be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Here are my observations. Sorry if they load up in a mess. I wish it were easier to quote from external sources on Mumsnet.

Firstly - I dislike the use of the terms Youth and Young people. It seems deliberate to distract from the fact that school pupils are still children.

This part about the law is disingenuous, unless things are different in Scotland. I hope schools have better knowledge of the current Equality Act and what it says about exemptions being allowed. "110.The Equality Act 2010 allows for the provision of separate-sex113 and single-sex services114 where this is “a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim”.

The Supporting Transgender Youth guidance says:
"What the law says There is no law in Scotland, or in the UK, which states that only people assigned male at birth can use men's toilets and changing rooms, or that only people assigned female can use women's toilets and changing rooms. Discrimination case law has established that transgender people who have started living in accordance with their gender identity must not be banned from using the facilities matching their gender identity."

Really? Have any of these case laws been against schools?

Is it not a legitimate aim to allow privacy and dignity to all the other children, a large proportion of which are likely experiencing their own feelings of self-consciousness over their changing bodies? My children's' primary school stopped boys and girls changing together for PE when they were in Year 5 (age 9). What is the point of that if it can suddenly be deemed unimportant at some later date and overridden by another's conflicting wants. Either it is or it isn't important for children to have sex segregated spaces when their bodies are developing. It can't be both. My DDs have to do mixed sex swimming in Years 7 - 9 and the majority of the pupils hate it, girls and boys, doing what they can to get out of it. That's how much they do not wish to be undressed in front of the opposite sex.

I note the guidance says:

"As a guide, it is helpful to ask: Is the young person being treated with dignity and respect? Have you taken all reasonable steps to accommodate their needs? "

Will they not ask these questions of all the other pupils?

Ah and then there's the twisting of statistics again to scare parents or teachers. In the infographic about having supportive or supportive parents they cite this:

Based on a 2012 study of 433 individuals. Travers R, Bauer G, Pyne J, Bradley K, for the T rans PULSE Project: Gale L, Papadimitriou M (2012). Impacts of Strong Parental Support for Trans Youth: a report prepared for Children’s Aid Society of Toronto and Delisle Youth Services.

Here's the report pdf

"Survey data were collected from a total of 433 trans participants (youth and non-youth) by internet or paper survey." "Participants were recruited through respondent-driven sampling (RDS) over a 12-month period in 2009-2010, including 123 trans youth, 84 of whom had socially transitioned gender (or begun to), come out to their parents, and provided information reporting how supportive their parents were of their gender identity or expression. This analysis is based on data from these 84 youth."

So not 433 individuals who are trans youths then.

Finally:
"Transgender professionals who could be referred to in lessons include:

J uno D awson – author (young people's fiction and non-fiction) and trans woman"

Who, in the Guardian in the summer in a piece about summer likes and dislikes, answered the question: What’s your summer soundtrack? with
"It’s a bit cliched, but Lana Del Rey. It’s all languid California suncream and cherry cola. You can roll around in the garden pretending to be Lolita, or Cecile from Bonjour Tristesse." Ugh - a YA author who does school visits. Worrying.

I'm happy with my children learning about gender dysphoria, I'm glad for teachers to be provided with guidance, I don't wish for any young person to suffer any hatred or bullying or nonacceptance for how they express themselves but this guidance is one-sided, shits all over girls especially and is overkill. Do schools get issued with guidance for dealing with children with other issues which are 60 pages long? A quick google for Autism and the guidance I found for for secondary schools is only 20 pages long. Where are all the school-wide pro campaigns to support girls with ASD or ADHD, children with social anxiety, children who experience bereavement etc...?

I am actually thinking I may need to home educate DD just to keep her safe, if things continue down this route. A parent does not need to be informed if opposite sexes are sharing previously sex segregated areas indeed.

I have actually specifically asked DDs school reception to let me know if they have any trans talks on. Shes only 5, and it will confuse the hell out of her and I don't want her to be 'recruited' just because she tends to favour 'boys toys' and such. I genuinely believe treating kids in that way is abuse, in plain view of professionals who should know better, and with state support also. Mass child abuse.

So basically boys will be in girls changing rooms and vice versa. What could possibly go wrong? Law suits a plenty.

This is starting to remind me of the Trolley Bus dilemma - you know, where taking an action saves some people while literally throwing others under the bus?

The difference is that in the original problem, the question is whether it's ethical to pull a lever and save five people while killing the one who would originally have escaped.

Here, it's more like endangering the many to save the one.

I can't load it, which is frustrating. I may blow a gasket. I'm in Scotland, with school aged children. Going to circulate this to all the mothers I know.

yes it says scot.gov on the first page