Trans guidelines for schools in Scotland

They are still looking at sex, if a child is MTF they still see them as male.

Bigots.

There is an issue with boys/men generally being a bit more physical than girls/women whether it's fighting or other stuff.

Will FTM really want to go to boys schools? I would imagine they'd feel more comfortable at a mixed school or where they are already at a girls school there have been trans boys who have stayed.

Like prisons - would a FTM be put in a male prison? Would they want to be? What would the risk assessment say?

Because women tend to be more accommodating than men, and less violent, you tend to get anyone who won't feel at home in with the women. So the old "men" and "non men" thing. Schools is the same - MTF will want to be with girls, high chance they will have had a hideous time with boys and will feel safer. FTM will probably want girls or mixed for safety reasons also. Girls are also with girls.

That statement from eton is interesting and also entirely predictable. They are still looking at sex, if a child is MTF they still see them as male.

@datun willful ignorance

There is a massive issue with gender and sex being used both inconsistently and interchangeably.

Which demonstrates that it’s not soppy writing, it’s incomprehension and ignorance.

I wonder though if it is just sloppy drafting

There is a massive issue with gender and sex being used both inconsistently and interchangeably.

A few of the private girls schools in London have published their policies on this - interesting reading. Won't quote directly here but think top 10 and it's on their websites for some of them.

I wonder though if it is just sloppy drafting. Maybe that's wishful thinking but I might email to clarify. There seems to be so much woolly thinking around these issues I wouldn't be completely surprised if they hadn't thought it through to that extent.

This is the school I plan to send my DDs to.

So does that mean they will admit MtF students, but not FtM?

That’s exactly what it means.

It never fails to astonish me how people can suddenly categorise the human race based on a feeling in their head, rather than observable, identifiable sex characteristics.

And it’s only women who miss out. Again.

I checked out our local girls' and boys' schools equality policies. Girls' say they will treat both sex and gender as protected characteristics. They state they are a single sex school. But they also say they will operate admissions "by gender".

So does that mean they will admit MtF students, but not FtM?

Clear as mud.

(Boys' school doesn't seem to have anything about this in admissions, but at least they're not putting out confusing statements.)

WelshMoth

I've said too much. This whole issue is too frightening for words. Why won't law makers listen?

I hear you Moth.

And I agree. It’s almost beyond comprehension. The blindspot, sitting alongside the massive #metoo campaign, is staggering.

But, people are waking up.

Eton, for instance, have just decided they will allow boys who transition, into the school, but not natal girls.

So we are supposed to accept that you can change sex, which is detrimental to us. But not males? . They can be utterly transphobic when their rights are threatened, but we can’t?

I don’t believe for a second that they will not get backlash for that.

Always thought that when it started to really affect men, it might make people sit up.

I’m sorry for what happened to you. No child should have to go through that. I hear you.

Still can't sleep.
I was molested by a 10 year old when I was 9. Gym team sharing a coach with a footie team in the early 80's. I was at the back of the bus with the older crew, feeling cool and accepted with my team leotard and cheap tracksuit and sandwiches and pop, travelling to the next town for a day of sports. By the time we arrived, I'd been held down and assaulted and laughed at so an attack that can make part of your innocence die, can start from junior school age.

Primary school boys and some fucking girls held me down that day. We're not just talking teenagers - this can happen at younger ages. It's so vital that we separate by sex in all places that girls are vulnerable.

I've said too much. This whole issue is too frightening for words. Why won't law makers listen?

This caught my eye...

And, no, we were not required to put it in our risk assessment because “he” was no more a risk than any other boys (nor at greater risk in spite of the oft repeated suicide risk that led to the changes).

I'm thinking aloud now. What if, what IF the FtM who'd opted into a male area on a residential trip was assaulted? At that age, SRS is too early so they'd have female sexual organs no matter how they'd present.

I'm in NO WAY suggesting that this is always going to happen, but it's always a risk. We cannot identify the determining factor why some males attack females which is why we separate by sex to minimise the risk.

Rapists attack women, no matter how they present. It's happening. How the fucking hell can we explain that one on a residential trip when the FtM has opted in to a male area?

Oh ffs. Can I please apologise in advance. I know what's in my head but a fucking brutal week of bonkers parents and lack of sleep is clouding my ability to string a sentence together.

I believe most/all the women's colleges in the US now run on a self-ID policy, not sure what the schools policies are, or whether any single-sex schools in the UK have written/public policies as of yet, they may have a policy in practice.

Single sex schools are interesting.

There have been a few children who have transed but stayed at the school.

I don't know if there have been trans kids applying to join single sex schools yet. I'd be interested to hear what eton would say.

Thing is that transboys in a boys school, would be at risk, I'd think. Also trans girls. I suspect that as with toilets,prisons etc schools will end up being "men" and "non men" (including transmen).

ie everyone knows what a man is, and anyone who doesn't fit that gets to to in with the women as a sort of catch-all sub option.

I've been wondering about single sex schools too.

How is this going to impact girls' schools? Will they have to take MTF pupils?

Bloody hell MrsKnightley that's mind-bendingly illogical. And heartbreaking that children are already legally, knowingly, provably being put at risk in this way.

Did you inform the boys' parents? Or did they already know because they knew the child in question was trans? How did your colleagues feel about it?

Rhonda good plan!

By the way this has been the policy with the girl guides for some time. Share with the girls/ no need for parents to know. And well of course being allowed to join in the first place.

Have already run a residential school trip with a trans pupil who shared bathrooms with others of the new gender. This was in accommodation with separate toilets and showers within a male and a female bathroom so only sinks were communal, and these were in bedrooms too. All rooms were single.

However, we did all the research and contacted the (Scottish) council and, yes, the pupil could use the bathroom of their choice and sleep in rooms amongst other boys. The trip was to England so not sure how that would have worked. All pupils aged 15-18.

I only went along with it because of the single rooms and because the pupil is FTM so not a physical threat but I did feel that boys might have objected (they didn’t) or parents. Imagine if there had been a “gay” relationship as a result (said pupil is now a gay male) that had ended with pregnancy!

I know most concerns are with MTF because of issues of violence / rape but this was a risk too.

And, no, we were not required to put it in our risk assessment because “he” was no more a risk than any other boys (nor at greater risk in spite of the oft repeated suicide risk that led to the changes).

Christ it’s depressing . I have three girls and apparently I’m not entitled to know if someone of the male sex is sharing a room/bathroom/shower with them in a school trip.
And they have to STFU and accept a male sharing intimate space with them and at a time when many teenage girls are going through their own identity crap dealing with being a girl.

But that’s the biggest lesson of all - move to the back of the queue girls when it comes to your needs. Remember your place.

Have you got this in writing or was it verbal

She sent me an email after I sent her a link to the resources for schools on the transgendertrend website, telling me I couldn’t share them in a professional capacity.

A colleague from another school had asked me to send her the links after a training session run by the consultant.

I’m thinking I will have to tell the colleague that I’m not allowed to send her the links to the resources for schools on the , which is a shame as she will have to look them up for herself

"How would you instruct a Strip the Willow using these guidelines?"

No clue, i don't actually remember how to do any dances... possibly because I always had to be a man? Rofl