Women prefer working for male bosses

ooh yes, what Zaphod said! Now I think about it, almost any notable (positive or negative) characteristic of senior female staff I have heard attributed to their femaleness by someone when discussed. Oops.

And btw I am a very sporadic MN poster but this came up on active threads this morning & I wanted to defend my boss good / bad bosses are an emotive subject!

I've had shit male and female bosses. The worst ones that come to mind were mostly men, but not exclusively.

I do think that "bad behaviour" is perceived differently in men and women. Men who get in heated and unprofessional disputes with one another, then are speaking again the next day, are used as examples of male straightforwardness and ungrudginess. Women doing the same thing are fickle and two-faced.

The absolute worst boss situations I've been in have involved firms or departments run by a couple. I now refuse to work in such places.

I often check posters’ histories. Sometimes people don’t post in good faith. And it’s a means of knowing whether or not you’re wasting your time.

Why do people post arrogant nonsense like this? Do you sit down checking every posters name, checking into their history? and why on earth would you do that, simply because you don’t agree with their experiences or assertions. Or have you reported posters to MN HQ and they told you most on here are nor regular posters?

Ooo-er. Sorry for rattling your cage. For the record: no, I have never checked a poster's history nor do I report posters to MN HQ.

I am a regular poster and, like Quentin, couldn't help noticing that there are a lot of non-regulars on here and wondered why. Sorry if making a simple observation is "arrogant".

It's odd how we're supposed to accept your anecdotes Lass, but you never seem to accept anybody else's views or anecdotes even when backed up with a lot of evidence, isn't it? Do you reckon your experience is valid and everybody else's experience isn't?

I've never had a female manager or boss in my "career" job. My male bosses have all been extremely different, so I don't know whether I can say I like working for a man, because some of them were dreadful and others we just didn't quite mesh.

From part time and temporary jobs when I was younger, the shit ones were fairly evenly split between male and female.

Women are still competing for scraps of power and respect, easier to bully other women than take on the patriarchy

Oh come off it. So even when being an outright bully a woman is still a victim.

Women being assertive are perceived more negatively than a man

There is a huge difference between being assertive and publicly tearing a strip off a junior assistant in public in an open plan office.

Have not rtft but I think two things happen here:
Women are still competing for scraps of power and respect, easier to bully other women than take on the patriarchy
Women being assertive are perceived more negatively than a man, due to ingrained misogyny plenty of research shows this. Even women who talk just 30% of the time are viewed as dominating the discussion.
We have a long way to go.

I am a regular. I have worked in law offices as an employee and latterly an employer since 1982. In that time the most problematic behaviour I seen towards staff has been by a small minority of senior female lawyers. Currently trying damage limitation on one case.

Dismiss that as irrelevant anecdotes because it doesn't suit your agenda if you like. It is still empiric evidence as far as I am concerned.

Oh and by far the worst example of sexual harassment was years of appalling behaviour by a female legal secretary towards male trainees. She routinely humiliated them with lewd, suggestive comments, hugely inappropriate joke sexualised leaving gifts , culminating in her finally being disciplined after she literally tore a trainee's shirt off at an office event.

Worst example of male ? The partner who used to take the pretty female trainees, but not the plain ones or the men, out to lunch , always at least 2 in a group, at the end of their 6 months session.

Like Quentin, I've noticed there is a high proportion on this thread who are not regular posters. Wonder why.

Why do people post arrogant nonsense like this? Do you sit down checking every posters name, checking into their history? and why on earth would you do that, simply because you don’t agree with their experiences or assertions. Or have you reported posters to MN HQ and they told you most on here are nor regular posters?

Personally I don’t care who I work with, wether male or female, but I can only give my own personal experience which I think is what most here have done.

DamsonInDistressss

What’s the point of your opening post? Because I noticed, elsewhere, you have asserted you don’t think there is such thing as male violence. Only ‘individual’ violence. Which makes me wonder why are you are posting this on a feminist board.

Is your post just idle speculation? Or do you have a position about this?

Like Quentin, I've noticed there is a high proportion on this thread who are not regular posters. Wonder why.

I've had good and bad men and women bosses. Few of us on here, even if we had changed our job every six months and worked for 50 years would have had a sample that approaches statistical significance set against the thousands of bosses in the workplace. The play of chance is very mean.

I'd like to hope that anyone here who is in a job that affects other people's lives base their decisions on a slightly better evidence base than they have used on this thread. Yes...I know, I am taking it too seriously

Bad male bosses are seen as a one-off

God knows why, because there are loads of them about.

I understand why this would be, I've always preferred most of my male bosses and gotten on with them better than female ones (except for my current female assistant manager who is great).

Most of the female bosses I've worked for have been bastards to deal with, but I feel this is because they've had to become that way to get ahead, they've found it's the only way to be taken seriously in a largely male surrounding.
Knowing the reason why they're probably so difficult to work for doesn't make it a more pleasant experience as the person working under them though.

I do also feel that for some women they have a chip on their shoulder from the struggles they've had to overcome in their progression. I've seen male bosses on the same level as some female ones and it's the men who have been more encouraging of other people wanting to progress themselves, whereas the female ones weren't as nearly encouraging or helpful with it.

So whilst I don't think it's necessarily through sexist reasons that more people prefer male bosses, I definitely think it stems from sexist behaviour that a lot of female bosses are much more difficult to work for.

I'm not buying the "they have to try so much harder line" by the time I met them they were senior and established yet still awful to their staff.

So why do you think that is?

Do you think women make worse bosses and if so why? ? Or do you think, it evens out across the sexes.

I think there's a few things going on

Nobody much likes being told what to do but we're happier about it if we perceive the teller to be substantially higher status than us. Men get a status boost just from being men.

We expect women to be nice, socially skilled and emotionally intelligent so we notice it more when they're not

There are lots of handy 'bad female boss' stereotypes available so we slot women into them as Zaphod says upthread. Bad male bosses are seen as a one-off

Yeah, I’m not buying this all female bosses are awful line, either

Has anyone said that? I certainly didn't. I said that of the small number of truly awful bosses I have come across ( not worked for personally but seen in action) the majority were women.

I'm not buying the "they have to try so much harder line" by the time I met them they were senior and established yet still awful to their staff.

Also, every poster on the thread so far has had issues with specific female managers and have now decided all female managers are bad. Would you have thought the same if your old boss was black / disabled? I think not!

Nobody has said anything of the sort. Posters have posted their life and work experience. Where that doesn't suit the agenda of certain posters it is then dismissed as anecdote or in your case twisted into something no one has said.

I have been in the work place for 40 odd years and in all that time the majority of bosses I have had were men. With the exception of one guy they were all misogynistic , sexist bullies - and useless to boot.
Both female managers I have had were lovely - supportive and fair as well as good at their jobs. I would far rather work with women than men. IME if you challenge men in the workplace they will just ignore you or talk over the top of you. Women will listen.

The top para of that should he been in bold or “” - not sure why it didn’t work

I should imagine a company full of feminists, who understand what it’s like to navigate life as a woman, completely appreciate childcare problems, and working with men general, would be a bit of a dream.

I work at a human rights type organisation. Does loads of work to fight** discrimination in the workplace. My department isn’t focused on gender issues specifically though, but everyone is passionate about the organisations goals. My female boss was horrible to me when I was pregnant. I have heard one of the most senior females in the organisation say that she would never employ a 30-ish woman as they just get pregnant. I missed out on a really good promotion a few years ago I announced I was pregnant about 5 months later and everyone agreed and commented that it was a good job I didn’t get the promotion. It’s certainly not just me who has been given a very hard time for being pregnant. From knowing and working with these women for years they all consider themselves feminists- but they are of the “school” of feminism where you (had to) work your ass off and don’t have children . They had to choose between career or family (and I have no doubt that they genuinely did have to make a choice) and don’t see that things have or rather should have changed. It all seems quite....bitter.
I am sure that this is not representative of women bosses in general. I wish it wasn’t true of my organisation.

I have always worked in very female dominated spaces

I dont think i have had a bad manager at all except for the men in one of my jobs as a teenager...which was more sex/creepy based although they were perfectly pleasant usually

I have only had one manager immediately in charge of me and that was when my supervisor was on maternity leave

He was lovely but then ive liked most of my managers/supervisors. I cant think of a bad one, although having said that one of them was a little bit fogetful and didnt do chunks of work which if tackled by senior management would always be someone else's fault

Thats me personally though

Yeah, I’m not buying this all female bosses are awful line, either.

Anecdote is meaningless.

But for all those who genuinely think, or have said, that female bosses are worse, why do you think that is?

Are you saying that women are just crap at leadership? Or naturally bitchy?

Or trying to navigate man’s world leads women to always be held to a higher standard?

What do you think the reason is?

I ws one of those who said they prefer male bosses to women. This was based on experience, not "true" preference. I would love to find a strong, secure, supportive female manager. But I have never found one. They have been bullies and sarcastic. I have also found women bosses to be harder on women than the men. It seems to be a thing that women are not backwards in coming forwards in rebuking other women, but when a male direct report needs managing, they shirk from it, or take the "ah bless him" approach. I have only ever had one great manager, a male one. I have also had lots of mediocre and patronising male bosses. But faced with the low level anxiety induced by having to face a female boss every day, I will take the mediocrity, patronisation and casual sexism every time. I don't take pleasure in that, it is just my opinion drawn from personal experience.

Much as I suspect the the thread was started hoping for a stream of criticism of "female bosses", it's very disheartening to see, especially as someone who has firm career plans as do all my friends. Many falling over themselves to say they'd rather work for men, judging all women on the actions of a tiny number, the OP claiming I have "a serious grudge against men" for opposing misogynist attitudes which is absolutely ridiculous and would be laughable if it didn't show how standing up against misogyny is labelled "anti-men", the plethora of evidence not least coming out recently of how many men in positions of power act in particular towards women completely disregarded, someone who's apparently a teacher going on about how much they prefer male bosses (I dread to think how they're judging and treating the girls compared to the boys they teach). Throw in Lass making comments suggesting I only got work experience because of my dad and all in all, sitting here waiting for my first lessons, it is rather dispiriting, primarily because all this is on a thread mainly populated by women, all this casual misogyny and dismissing of women. Makes me realise that many women will and probably already do judge me negatively purely because of my sex too.