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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Women prefer working for male bosses

260 replies

DamsonInDistressss · 06/11/2017 22:13

It seems a common argument that the lack of women in senior management positions is a result of the patriarchy. However, I was surprised to read in a recent thread on here that the majority of women prefer female bosses and are more likely to collaborate with a man than with another woman. I can't find that thread so am reposting here.

If true, this is surely a prime example of us women shooting ourselves in the foot and must be a serious contributor to male dominance.

OP posts:
derxa · 08/11/2017 14:57

Personal experience
Speech and language therapist: 5 different good female bosses
Teaching: 2 vile female bosses 1 good female boss 1 very manipulative female boss 2 good male bosses
Farming: I'm the boss
One of the vile head teachers almost broke me and others mentally and emotionally. She was a very insecure bully.
A mix of men and women in a workplace is always a good thing in my opinion. It diffuses a lot of nastiness.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 08/11/2017 14:19

why do you think people might prefer male bosses?

Personally, I think it's confirmation bias.
The same reason men might say women are bad drivers: they drive alongside hundreds of female drivers every day without noticing, or commenting, but when that one woman pulls out in front of them it sticks in their mind and and creates or reinforces their belief that women are bad drivers.
None of us would agree that women are inherently bad drivers.
I don't think women are inherently bad bosses, but that some people perceive that they are due to this same confirmation bias.
I also wonder if some women kind of expect male bosses to be, if not bad, an adversary, whereas they kind of expect female bosses to be a bit kinder, then when they aren't classify them as a bad boss.

Sunshineandshopping · 08/11/2017 14:12

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Sunshineandshopping · 08/11/2017 14:11

how convenient Grin

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 08/11/2017 14:10

Sunshine you have now accused me 3 times of lying. I will not respond to any more posts by you.

LornaMumsnet · 08/11/2017 14:08

Ahem

It appears that this thread is turning into a slinging match, and we don't want to have to delete it, so can we try and keep it civil? It would be a shame to lose it when there are so many great, supportive posts buried within.

Peace and love...

Sunshineandshopping · 08/11/2017 13:52

I said I don’t believe lass is a partner in a law firm. dey
lass as I explained earlier my posts have been about women as a class, not anecdata. No one has dismissed the op’s article out of hand, they have simply said, hang on a minute if this is true, what might be driving it.
I’ve asked you before and I’ll ask again, why do you think people might prefer male bosses? If it is simply that you believe they are better at being bosses can you explain why that is?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 08/11/2017 13:51

You offer nothing other than ad hominem attacks

Unlike you Sunshine?

I am getting tired of your accusations of lying. Either stop it or report me to MN.

SomeDyke · 08/11/2017 13:51

"the feeble excuses being made for poor management by women."
Posts seeking to examine the context for such poor management (if it exists) are not the same as individual excuses, and we are all too used to seeing any such investigation being couched in those terms. Including, unfortunately a possible attitude amongst successful women or managers themselves, which is the 'I achieved this through my merits, why can't the rest of you'.

Would people have the same responses do you think if the question had instead been 'white men or black men, which do you prefer as managers?..............................

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 08/11/2017 13:45

(in my view, empiric evidence of...there being 2 female bullies in Lass's firm)

And I meant no more than that. I have not said bad behaviour is universal. I have said several times that of the small number of outstandingly bad bosses I have come across there were more women than men.

I have not said anything of the kind resembling your option A that "women as a class are inherently flawed etc etc".

My objection to certain posts is the dismissal out of hand of the veracity of the articles in opening post and the feeble excuses being made for poor management by women.

The posts you see as "sneery" are a response to the excuses being made for bad management by women.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 08/11/2017 13:43

Lass has a long posting history, has said she's a lawyer in Scotland many times, often comments on law, particularly Scottish.
And sunshine you don't believe for one second she's a lawyer?
She's certainly been playing a long game then, claiming to be a lawyer for possibly years just to derail this thread.

Sunshineandshopping · 08/11/2017 13:35

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Sunshineandshopping · 08/11/2017 13:33

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Phuquocdreams · 08/11/2017 13:26

Sorry, I should say Lass and others are going with A! And just to say I definitely disagree with the poster saying lass's posting style means she's not a lawyer. We're not writing legal documents here!

Phuquocdreams · 08/11/2017 13:24

Dey, as far as I know young women do in fact out-earn men. It's later on that the gap appears. Note, I am not saying this is because they are treated better by men - also being treated/spoke to better doesn't necessarily mean being promoted!
Also, I'm definitely not saying female bosses are better than men. Ime, twattishness, bitchiness, incompetence etc is fairly evenly spread across genders. I don't believe the world would be a better place if it was run by women. However, there are two responses to a survey showing more people prefer a male boss to a female boss. A: women as a class are just inherently, by the very nature, flawed, crappy and not suited to being a boss B: some other factors may be in play. Lass, and others like her, are going with B (lass, you said you're not generalising but you also said those 2 female bullies were "empiric evidence". Evidence of what?) I, some other posters, and, as I understand, quite a bit of research, are going with B. In even trying to discuss B, we keep on going back to those 2 female bullies (in my view, empiric evidence of...there being 2 female bullies in Lass's firm) and this sneery "cos biology, cos patriarchy" style of posting.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 08/11/2017 13:17

Sunshine I don't care what you believe. Feel free to report me if you think I am lying. I have no intention of providing you with personal information. I have been posting here for several years (unlike you?) and have regularly commented on aspects of Scots Law.

Well done in spotting a typo posted in haste rushing for a train . You are correct that "can't" should be "can".

I see so many complaints on FWR about women not being taken seriously in the workplace- yet you post infantilising excuses that the fact women cannot moderate inappropriate bullying behaviour in the workplace is all down to patriarchy. If women can't work out how to behave apropriately in a workplace then perhaps they don't deserve to be taken seriously.

As for you being a lawyer- yet you go around calling people "bro"? Very odd.

I am impressed with the beginner's feminist bingo scorecard in your last post. I think there is a full house there. I particularly like that not agreeing with you is "derailing"

SuzukiLi · 08/11/2017 12:36

I've had 4 female bosses and they were cunts. I've had 4 make bosses and they were also cunts but not as bad as the women. TBH, I tend to prefer men to women in general.

Sunshineandshopping · 08/11/2017 12:23

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MrMeeseekscando · 08/11/2017 12:21

I have also been bullied terribly by female bosses.
I now work in a very male industry and I've only ever been treated fairly.
Unfortunately I think it is actually a thing!

deydododatdodontdeydo · 08/11/2017 12:05

I just mean the tendency of men to treat pretty young woman better.

Hang on, I was under the impression that men treat women worse, which is why it's so hard for women to rise to the top and those that do have had to fight against systemic misogyny.
But now I read they are treat better? If they are treat better, why aren't they rising ahead of the men?

canyouseemyusername · 08/11/2017 11:44

I think you perceive assertiveness from a female as bitchy. Not so much for men those. More women in senior positions can change this perception.

Phuquocdreams · 08/11/2017 11:31

Yep, that sneery tone is oh so familiar.

MelodyvonPeterswald · 08/11/2017 11:29

Only explanation

Phuquocdreams · 08/11/2017 11:28

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MelodyvonPeterswald · 08/11/2017 11:25

The tendency of men to treat pretty young woman better
Yes this 100%. I knew my instinctive desire to crush such women and make their working life a misery was entirely justified. Seeing as there are so many lawyers on here would anyone be willing to represent me to bring a case against my employer? My being a terrible boss is clearly their fault and I deserve compensation. The tone is set from the top and I have no personal choice or responsibility.

So...cos patriarchy, cos biology and cos tonefromthetop.