Article Showing Autogynaphilia in Action

One persons pride is another’s kinky.

Its just a slur designed to make a person ashamed of their sexual preferences/boundaries, and therefore more easily manipulated into compliance with what someone else wanted to do.

Imagine if women were to call gay men prudes or vanilla or basic, because they didn’t want to have sex with women...oh wait that does happen to lesbians.

@whiskyowl, I was in no way referring to what you do. No idea why you decided I was referring to you, I was referring to the article and the description given of the interaction with the sales assistant.

Interestingly, whilst accusing me of all kinds of opinions that I haven't in any way expressed, you have shown you're quite prepared to make assumptions about me too. I have not said a single thing about kinks/fetishes/sexual fantasies yet you have decided to pigeonhole me as some kind of prude. Odd.

For proof of what Mightymikey says, check out www.crossdressers.com

There is a lot of chat there (waves at DH) about how to gaslight your OH into believing your chat. Also lots about the sex side. You might need to register to get the gross stuff. I think they know about MN!

It’s a bit like the difference between flashers and someone buying a trench coat from M&S. And then commenters getting a cob on every time someone talked about flashers because they know lots of folk who wear trench coats who aren’t flashers, and anyway flashers don’t exist because they haven’t seen one, or that there are so few we don’t need to worry, and who are they harming anyway. Etc.

I think the problem is we are talking about AGP, you are talking about cross dressing, which are different things. But I think you know that.

Peace and love.

To reiterate:

As I pay, I smile and wink, as if to say, “I am enjoying this even if you aren’t.”

“I let them know that I’m enjoying it, even if they aren’t.”

Laughing at your thing about my not understanding the basics...Good grief.

You need to reread the article. I’ll find the quote....

birdbandit - just because your exDH (I trust he's an ex after what you say about his bad behaviour towards you) was a fetishistic cross-dresser does not mean that everyone (or even a majority) of the folks who like to cross-dress are fetishists. There is nothing in the Guardian article to suggest this is fetishistic behaviour, or that the communication with the salespeople has anything sexual about it.

Honestly, this is basic stuff. This why I don't post in this forum. The lack of even the most rudimentary knowledge/reading on issues of feminism and gender is embarrassing.

Whycant, just wading in here to say as like you, a wife of a crossdresser, I find it ridiculous when folk project their understanding of their situation onto mine, and assume everyone thinks the same/behaves the same.

My DH is gross! He talks a good game, a well rehearsed narrative of his oppression by societal norms, but that’s bullshit. Took a long time, lots of sleuthing (which makes me the bad guy) to unpeel the onion. He is a wanking, porn obsessed sleaze who gets off on his making me and others uncomfortable, trying to bully me into things outside of what I want to do sexually (I don’t want to shag other men for him to watch, how drearily vanilla of me) he cross dresses because it gives him an erection. He goes on cross dressing adventures as a sex tourist.

Whycant, takes all types doesn’t it? Wouldn’t want to inflict my DH on a salesperson who just wants to pay the mortgage and eat.

Who's saying that, birdbandit?

It's got nothing to do with consent. Unless every single shopping transaction is about consent.

It’s fairly staggering that the concept of consent is seen as either bigoted or vanilla.

Firstly, not DH - DP. Please. Marriage is a ridiculous, patriarchal fantasy, so please don't assume it.

"It's about being a unwilling participant in their active fantasy, being forced to participate even though you know that this stranger is getting off on your discomfort. Not be able to say no because you're trying to do your job and not get told off for losing a customer, or worse, be accused of transphobia."

No-one was being a participant in a fantasy, just the facilitator of a purchase of underwear which society has decreed to be exclusively for women.

They didn't have to see my DP in a state of undress, and there was nothing sexual about the shopping trip. Indeed, this is not a particularly sexual fetish in DPs case.

We telephoned in advance and had a very frank conversation with the department manager because we specifically didn't want anyone to be discomforted or embarrassed. Consent is everything in any situation remotely like this. Manager said, and I quote almost verbatim, that it was a 'very common request and they were happy to help'. They told us to ask for a particular staff member who was experienced in this kind of request.

I'm not sure how we could have been any more respectful. So I guess you're saying that men cannot buy 'lingerie' for themselves in person in any circumstance whatsoever.

You make an awful lot of assumptions AssasinatedBeauty, but I don't think you're particularly interested in the reality of the situation where it doesn't fit with your preconceptions.

Some of which I think are pretty ignorant, actually... I don't think you know many people who cross-dress - since you seem to have pigeon-holed it as some kind of sleazy, filthy, exploitative exercise.

In many cases it's not a remotely sexual thing.

Either people aren't offended/discomfited and it therefore doesn't affect them; or they are offended (and a bit bigoted), and he is calling them out. Either way, I can't really see that his actions are worse than theirs.

This has nothing to do with trans. A person who likes wearing the other sex's lingerie is not necessarily by any means trans. Grayson Perry is not trans because he wears awesome outfits, he's just a guy who likes to wear a dress.

No one is offended by a man wearing women's pants. It's about being a unwilling participant in their active fantasy, being forced to participate even though you know that this stranger is getting off on your discomfort. Not be able to say no because you're trying to do your job and not get told off for losing a customer, or worse, be accused of transphobia.

No one is offended by a man wearing women's pants. It's about being a unwilling participant in their active fantasy, being forced to participate even though you know that this stranger is getting off on your discomfort. Not be able to say no because you're trying to do your job and not get told off for losing a customer, or worse, be accused of transphobia.

I think it would be a spectacularly sheltered and judgemental person who was offended or made uncomfortable by a bloke wearing knickers. I mean, as far as fetishes goes, it's not exactly something out of the Marquis de Sade, is it?

Whycant you have justified this behaviour to yourself to the extent where you can’t imagine, or certainly don’t demonstrate you understand that another person (the shop assistant) isn’t cool with how your DH gets his rocks off. Or perhaps you don’t really care. It’s all about his rights/needs etc.

You might be cool to play, but it is incredibly rude to have unwitting and unwilling accomplices add to the frisson.

Thanks OlennasWimple. This AGP doesn't sound very new then? But giving it this AGP name is?

What is it if a woman wore a man's suit and felt sexy? like in that Robert Palmer video from the 80s/90? Or dressed in a man's shirt the morning after?

kinka - no, AGP is about men being turned on by the idea / image / actuality of them being dressed as a woman. (And usually a hyper sexualised woman, the undies they are wearing are not tummy hugging period pants )

Agree that being deliberately provocative and creepy to the female staff members is really not OK. And I am very concerned about the gender self identity issues.

On the other hand if I (a woman) wore secret sexy lingerie under a coat - lets say the classic scenario of wearing only a mac and sexy lingerie, no dress - to pick up my husband from the train station and it gave me a sexual thrill to wear that and to know that - does that make me an AGP? Am I missing something? Don't women dress their bodies sexily (in private or otherwise) and find it arousing? Apologies if I have compeltely not got it! I am not trolling, just confused.

And in no way to say that I condone men being creepy and abusive with their fetishes or with sexual remarks or behaviour.