R4 Today programme have an item on later about children and gender dysphoria.

Predictable backlash:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5041267/Backlash-Lord-Winston-gender-operations-warning.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/01/transgender-people-can-end-badly-damaged-says-lord-robert-winston/

Would anyparent consider supporting their DIIP child by going down such a highly medical, irreversible route?

I recently read an article about a child who transed at 14, then deteansitioned at 17, by which time his features had softened and his height was stunted. His mother genuinely felt she was doing the right thing, as she feared self harm/suicide. If I recall correctly, she was giving him her own prescribed medication, in the absence of a willing medical professional. I wonder who provided her with such 'advice'

There's another article , about a man who eventually travelled to Asia, to have his leg amputated. He says that he has now taken on the role of gatekeeper for his surgeon. His insistence they he' just knew' from the age of 4, that the leg wasn't meant to be there, and that he felt like an amputee trapped in the wrong (able bodied) body.
The script is so frighteningly familiar.
I'm struck by what looks to me to be almost one-upmanship among transgender youngsters/teens, like a fashion trend.

Could DIIP really be the next big thing?...

Would anyparent consider supporting their DIIP child by going down such a highly medical, irreversible route?

I recently read an article about a child who transed at 14, then deteansitioned at 17, by which time his features had softened and his height was stunted. His mother genuinely felt she was doing the right thing, as she feared self harm/suicide. If I recall correctly, she was giving him her own prescribed medication, in the absence of a willing medical professional. I wonder who provided her with such 'advice'

There's another article , about a man who eventually travelled to Asia, to have his leg amputated. He says that he has now taken on the role of gatekeeper for his surgeon. His insistence they he' just knew' from the age of 4, that the leg wasn't meant to be there, and that he felt like an amputee trapped in the wrong (able bodied) body.
The script is so frighteningly familiar.
I'm struck by what looks to me to be almost one-upmanship among transgender youngsters/teens, like a fashion trend.

Could DIIP really be the next big thing?...

I think they view "sex as a woman" in much the same way as very many other men view it - as being the object of penetration.

Exactly. It’s not about being a woman, it’s about fetishising their idea of the perfect woman they want to fuck.

Which is why the fetish relies on them subjugating themselves, being compliant, objectified, subordinated, etc.

"Gender realignment"? That sounds like old white woman talk.

Get with the program, "gender confirmation surgery" is far better and sounds positive and life-affirming.

I think the mistake is to think that men who want to be women are viewing sex in the same way that women do.

I think they view "sex as a woman" in much the same way as very many other men view it - as being the object of penetration. It's consistent with the view that women who consent to sex with one man will have sex with another man (rape myth), that prostitution is an aspect of a woman's sexuality or that sex ends when a man has an orgasm etc.

jessica

I’ve read them describing their ‘female orgasms’. Straight out of the porn playbook. Thrashing around on the bed, being driven demented with ecstasy as multiple orgasms shudder through them.

In all fairness, some of the other posters were rather sceptical. But it’s just a different version of my cock’s longer than yours, isn’t it?

more about telling each other that’s what real women feel all the time.

So they think women feel nothing during sex, and it's just about penetrating a hole. That explains an awful lot.....

Chemical and surgical castration sounds a bit brutal tho. Let's call it "Gender realignment" instead - (as I heard someone refer to the process a teenager was going to go through ) - feels a lot better, doesn't it?
Part of the problem is that there is a sort of martyrdom around this, it's the price you pay for finding your authentic self. Like maybe joining an extreme religious organisation - the pain is part of the journey.

FloraFox

Excellent points.

If man is AGP, surgery can be desirable as it is the ultimate goal, in as much as they can have sex ‘as a woman’. Despite them remaining attracted to women, a man is used as a sort of prop for them to feel as much like a woman as they can.

Do you remember Bruce Jenner, an obviously heterosexual man, saying he might have a relationship with a man now? That’s the fetish in action.

Actually experiencing sexual pleasure in the same way that a woman does, is obviously not possible, but neither might it be the actual goal.

There is an enormous amount of sex involved in all this. It’s driven by men, so it’s unsurprising.

I think the mistake is to think that men who want to be women are viewing sex in the same way that women do.

Several times I have read transwomen talking about it, and there is a central theme. Equating every single thing they think and feel to be the same as a natal woman. It’s less about what they’re actually feeling (i.e. the sensation) and more about telling each other that’s what real women feel all the time.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder

After reading the recent thread about the professor, I googled DIIP regret.

And the comparisons are so glaringly obvious that I can't decide whether the article was written by someone here!

This line, in particular, struck me, "The disorder is usually traeted as a psychological condition" (not a direct quote-I'm just typing/thinking aloud from memory, on the bus.)

This is so sad and infuriating that young people are being experimented on like this. The TAs talk about the stopping puberty so that the child can go through the "correct" puberty using cross-sex hormones. I don't think there are any studies of what this means other than on the superficial level of fat distribution / muscle / facial hair / voice.

What about the changes caused by puberty in maturing the brain? How is the brain maturity affected by puberty blockers followed by cross-sex hormones?

Also TAs effectively try to suppress any discussion about the impact on children's genitalia by claiming that anyone who raises it is obsessed with children's genitalia. This is a hard topic and it's difficult to say "boys will not develop a penis, will have limited or no sexual desire and will be sterile" or "girls will suffer from vaginal atrophy leading to health problems including urinary incontinence at a young age and will be sterile". I don't know whether girls who take puberty blockers have their sexual desire affected.

The surgery for trans identified males to create a neo-vagina have typically had success criteria of whether it can be successfully penetrated by a penis (because that's what a vagina is right? ) so I'm not sure if the sexual pleasure of the trans person (male or female) is of much concern. I read an article a while ago by a prominent MTT who said he had little sensation in his created vagina whereas all the MTTs in his support groups said they were having orgasms all over the place. He said on speaking to them privately, they pretty much all admitted they had no sensation but didn't want to be the one in the group saying so.

It's a hard topic to discuss but it is so shocking when you realise what is going on and what is being done to this children.

I heard some of the R4 item (in a just-woke-up haze so not sure I caught everything). By the end of it I wanted the presenter to ask "But why are some people changing their bodies if it's about gender?". Surely someone changing their body is trans-sex (possibly in addition to trans-gender)?

hipsterfun I frequently see trans activists make ageist comments. They seem to see ageing and older people as 'other'.

Watching the clip made me wonder how young people like Jazz are going to deal with ageing, given they’ve already started down the path of setting themselves against biological realities.

One observation made in the Reddit thread caught my eye. I Am Jazz is a constructed reality television programme and as such will use techniques to pull in the viewer including having reveals, shocks, conflicts, etc. So when you see Jazz suddenly hitting a terrible obstacle which will need time to process, and bravery to overcome, don't assume it's not been scripted and added to create drama.

It's basically castration- not sex 'change'.

And as someone said upthread- who is going to sleep with them? Straight men won't want a woman with a penis or poorly constructed vagina. Gay men will want a man. Straight women will want a man, not a girl with a prosthesis. Lesbians want a woman.
It seems they will be prey for some deeply disturbed individuals with a fetish.

pisacake

I never know whether to stay pubescent or prepubescent! Because as I understand it, puberty has to start before you can take the puberty blockers.

And I’m quite certain they’re not told they will not have normal sexual function. Or their parents aren’t. Jazz’s mum acted as though it’s come as a complete shock.

It would be horrendous if they were told beforehand, and still went ahead.

It would seem that it should be impossible for a prepubescent child to consent to puberty blocking. Hormones make changes to brain and body, how are they supposed to know they don't want normal sexual function if they have never had one?

I doubt most small boys think 'oh yes I'd like to be a teenager so I can spend my time wanking'. It just wouldn't cross your mind.

"So Jazz Jennings, born male, looks like a girl (although not all the time, strangely), has breasts, but has the genitalia of a pubescent boy.
"

Pre-pubescent. Penis growth typically occurs from 11.5 to 16.5 years and as response to testosterone produced in puberty. I think the increase in volume is something like 4x.

Obviously if you have a penis that is 1/4 of the size of an normal adult male penis, than it's not going to give you as much to work with!

If she had not been given puberty blockers, the chances are high that she would have grown up to be a very feminine and pretty gay man which comes with a large dating pool.

This is the absolute crying shame of the whole thing.

It’s bad enough going through what he’s been through, but to be under the public spotlight for the duration makes it so much worse.

And it’s gut churning that his plight is being sold as entertainment.