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Men at Westminster

61 replies

OlennasWimple · 29/10/2017 16:00

In the light of the revelations already out there, and the suggestion that there are plenty more to come, I thought it would be worth having a stand alone thread to discuss them rather than them being caught up in other threads. The way that this is being reported and commented on is interesting in itself.

For example, it's apparently Theresa May's fault that there are "sex pests" in the Cabinet (not the men themselves who are to blame)

Whilst Jeremy Hunt manages to patronise grown women with his suggestion that the people who need reassurance are "the mums and dads" of women in Westminster, not the women themselves...

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AlistairAppletonssexyscarf · 09/03/2018 20:41

Bercow is the holder of a pretty significant position, and importantly, he represents the House of Commons in that position, rather than the Government. I can't see that his position should be sustainable on the back of this really. The amount of discussion across the press has been disappointing so far, compared to expenses.

Original poster
OlennasWimple · 09/03/2018 19:48

I'd forgotten I started this thread....

I wonder whether anyone will do anything on the back of Mhairi Black's speech earlier in the week about sexual harassment, where she made it clear that women at Westminster who were not MPs didn't feel empowered to speak up about sexual harassment and bullying behaviour

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thebewilderness · 09/03/2018 19:31

Since 2014, when the current HR processes were introduced, no complaints raised by staff members have been escalated to formal channels, such as mediation.

This is the one area where the men close ranks as you can see from that line in the report.

AlistairAppletonssexyscarf · 09/03/2018 19:08

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43346528

I can't find any discussion of this on Mumsnet? The person who was supposed to be demonstrating leadership in Parliament on better behaviour drove a woman to PTSD?

QuentinSummers · 21/12/2017 08:46

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-42434802

QuentinSummers · 21/12/2017 08:46

Damian Green has been forced to resign for being a lying toerag
amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-42434802

Really annoyed that the PM has admonished him for making Kate Maltby "feel uncomfortable". Stop making it somehow sound like her choice to be upset. Use the language to show Mr Green as actively doing something wrong. Theresa May coukd have said something like "inappropriate behaviour" or even "harassment".

MaryLennoxsScowl · 08/11/2017 13:31

I clocked the pastoral care line too - where was the care for the women he allegedly molested? It's bloody fishy that he killed himself rather than have the case investigated, and to my mind it's much more of an admission of guilt than a sign that he was persecuted by evil lying women.

SomeDyke · 08/11/2017 13:29

I see now that Dawn Butler has now modified her earlier position and says:
"After giving an interview this morning, I have looked further into the process followed in this case.

"I am satisfied that the appropriate process was followed, including preserving the anonymity of alleged victims at this stage of the process, and therefore do not feel an investigation is required."

What we have here now, possibly, is the anonymity of complainants versus those accused. Suspension whilst things are being investigated seems fair enough. Being allowed to remain in post whilst investigations proceed, not always so good, especially when you consider the case against the government as regards allegations of assault in schools:
www.theguardian.com/education/2017/nov/04/families-of-child-sexual-abuse-victims-threaten-action-against-uk-government

In this case, the only really unfortunate link seems to be the loss of cabinet post and the accusations -- except ministers get reshuffled all the time for all sorts of reasons, and a 'you should stand down whilst these multiple accusations are investigated' does not seem a totally disproportionate response.................

Damn, but that 'women's lies wreck lies' meme keeps going through my head, however hard I try to push it out!

SomeDyke · 08/11/2017 12:33

"I spy a narrative of "false accusations ruin lives" building."
Indeed. We are hearing a lot about whether or not he received appropriate pastoral care and information about the accusations, but is anyone checking that the women who reported what had happened are receiving appropriate care? Because at the moment, they are going to be even more silenced than they were before, because if they do go public, they will probably be accused of killing a decent family man with their lies..............On Twitter for example, many people seems to be listing these accusations as false, knowing nothing whatsoever about them other than that the person accused committed suicide.............

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 08/11/2017 11:58

Possibly, but why does that make her a person whose opinion on this, or indeed any other, issue is of any significance? Couldn’t today find someone with a brain to take the contrarian line?

JamieFrasersArse · 08/11/2017 08:02

what’s the deal with this wyatt woman - she hiring herself out to whoever needs a posh moron

Isn't her claim to fame shagging Boris Johnson?

QuentinSummers · 08/11/2017 07:57

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41908424

Sargent "thrown to the wolves" by being suspended while misconduct investigated.
I spy a narrative of "false accusations ruin lives" building.
It is horrific he committed suicide but let's not suggest it's the fault of the victim or his party for investigating allegations appropriately Angry

woman11017 · 04/11/2017 19:41

Edwina Currie excelled too on 'This Week': "good men" are having their political careers destroyed by their crimes/ women who pursue the crimes the men have perpetrated.

Is it a coincidence that she, Wyatt, KH etc are tories or worse?

Twas ever thus with Uncle Toms.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 04/11/2017 19:20

what’s the deal with this wyatt woman - she hiring herself out to whoever needs a posh moron to come on and remind us all why meritocracy is a good thing? I thought she sounded like she had several screws loose. Total broadmoor material.

TammyswansonTwo · 04/11/2017 14:50

That list was clearly an internal list. They knew all of it, and I suspect used it for whipping. The language too - "inappropriate with women"? "Had other women"? Do fuck off.

terryleather · 04/11/2017 14:19

Petronella Wyatt gave me the radge on the Today programme, I was shouting at the radio with exasperation.
She came over as a braying over privileged fool.
A fully paid up member of the establishment though so hardly surprising.
I suspect defending that is more important to her and the other women the media wheel out to tell us to stop clutching our pearls / being so hysterical/ etc etc.

QuentinSummers · 04/11/2017 13:03

there is always a woman apologist 'for balance'
Yes wtf is this all about? So far the only women I've heard have been going on about it's all fine, things are better than when they were young, women just need to stand up for themselves. It is really annoying me now. The narrative seems to be shifting to "how do we stop the witch hunt?" Instead of "how do we stop men being pigs?"
Well, plus ca change I guess

C8H10N4O2 · 04/11/2017 12:58

I am sick of hearing discussions and interviews about this which are entirely male contributors. On the occasion of there being women engaged there is always a woman apologist 'for balance' - Petronella Wyatt was loudly talking over another contributor and came very close to describing harassment as flattery. Someone (her mother?) apparently enjoyed being chased around the desk by Gaitskill, ignoring the other contributor's attempts to point out that the Wyatt family are not exactly typical of young, friendless women interns and juniors.

This morning it was Roger Gale playing to witch hunt card with all the implications that 'women lie'. Apparently all the women who have raised complaints are journalists or connected to journalists so must be lying about the poor menz. This is presumably the line which will be pursued across party lines

SonicBoomBoom · 04/11/2017 12:49

He said: "We're in danger of getting into a situation where nobody half bright, half sensible, half decent, will want to go into the House of Commons

Good. I don't want people who are only "half" decent. I want decency to be an absolute minimum.

Same really for bright and sensible.

And yes to leaving out half the population who would actually probably be more likely to want to work there if they knew these sort of men were reluctant to work there.

Original poster
OlennasWimple · 04/11/2017 12:36

The Charlie Elphick stuff has been referred to the police, so obviously whilst he is innocent until proven guilty, it would appear that there is something that appears to be actually criminal in his past that has been hushed up until now

We need to draw the line between gossip and serious abuses of power.

The two are inextricably linked

Well, yes and no (to them being linked)

I don't care about work place relationships provided that they are between consenting adults. Parties need to have clear guidelines (like other work places) but not describe such relationships as "fornicating", with all the moral judgment that implies.

And when two consenting adults in a relationship decide to have a baby, it is decidedly odd (as well as judgmental) to describe this happy occasion as "A impregnating B"

All this stuff does is muddy the waters of those who have allegedly engaged in criminal activities (such as using prostitutes and "enjoying young boys") and those who are known serial sexual harassers

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QuentinSummers · 04/11/2017 11:16

This is from a BBC article about Charlie Elphick
Sir Roger Gale, Conservative MP for North Thanet, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme it would be wrong to "rush to judgement" before there is proof of wrongdoing, warning against a "witch hunt".
He said: "We're in danger of getting into a situation where nobody half bright, half sensible, half decent, will want to go into the House of Commons - and that will not be good for democracy.

Errr, what about the female half of the population? No bright, sensible, decent people there?

woman11017 · 04/11/2017 10:47

Tracy Ullman did a spoof PPI ad on her show for sexual assault claims.
However, there must be quite a few Equalities and Sexual Offences Act cases in the pipeline.

SonicBoomBoom · 04/11/2017 08:46

Comedian Pippa Evans also illustrated how to be funny about the topic of sexual harassment and assault without making a joke of it, last night on The Now Show on Radio 4. She made up a song to help men know when not to touch other women. It's at the end of the programme.

woman11017 · 04/11/2017 08:16

We need to draw the line between gossip and serious abuses of power.
The two are inextricably linked.