Great article about Transgender Trend in the Mail. Yes really.

I've been part of a lefty women's group on fb for a few years and there were some really interesting discussions around this... until several transwomen joined the group and admin laid down the law that to discuss this topic was transphobic and anyone who believes that trans women are not women should leave. There's a transwoman there who's basically treated like a monarch by the other members. So much for equality.

I've never understood why transwomen are so insistent to be thought of as women - isn't that erasing their experiences, which I'm sure can't have been easy either? I've never met a BME person who is happy to go along with the colourblind principle.

I found it especially interesting during the Rachel Dolezal incident since the language being used against her was identical to the language of supposed TERFs and yet that was completely fine.

Saz432

Everything you’ve said is completely logical.

And in fact, when you ask a transwoman what it is that makes them feel female, they can’t answer.

However, they used to answer. It was all stereotypes. I feel more empathetic, I feel more vibrant, I cry at movies, I feel at home in a dress, etc. Until feminists got hold of that argument and pointed out that they were talking about gender stereotypes. Not innate feelings.

So they stopped saying it. But now they can’t say anything else, because, of course, it is all about stereotypes.

So they started to say, I just do, I can’t explain it. And now they say it’s transphobic to even ask because it’s invalidating.

And all women feel differently anyway. Which is a very useful argument from their side, because it means they can act in any misogynistic way they feel, but that can’t invalidate their womanhood, because women all act differently, right?

It’s a mindfuck of mammoth proportions once you start to drill down.

This is of huge concern to me.

I'm still not 100% sure of my feelings on the trans issue, it's not something I can properly comprehend but then it's not my place to, and I guess you can't if you haven't experienced it. I can't fathom how anyone knows that they "feel female" since I don't feel female myself, what does it even mean to feel female? But perhaps I don't understand it because I can't, and I accept that it's no ones responsibility to make me understand or should care that j don't.

Having said that, I find the treatment of children really concerning. I can't think of any other condition where what you feel is the trigger for treatments and surgeries that cause irreversible physical changes. There are people who have all their limbs but feel like an amputee - we would never sanction amputations for those people, right? It feels like this is the one dysphoria that we must accept as legitimate without discussion.

@nauticant Alex says Alex did the redacting

Parents of teens/young adults can't go public about our fears for risk of alienating our already vulnerable and distressed children. That article was a good start.

The point about social media is really terrifying. I have recently come to understand something of what is going on in teens lives - google fandoms for certain things like Harry Potter, Hamilton - you name it - and add the word "trans" and the posts and it's all there.

If you have 10/12 year olds and don't understand Tumblr and Instagram better learn fast.
Ask your school what they understand about what might be going on, and whether they get any of their diversity training form Mermaids or GIRES.

The comments all seem to be gender critical too. Its odd that I agree with DM comments...feels all wrong

Needs must, I suppose.

I did wonder who had done the redacting. If it was the Daily Mail then that means they're (perhaps inadvertently) going along with Alex having become a man.

The DM recently pixelated the fondant nipples of a fondant woman and fondant penis of a fondant man. Note that the man’s fondant nipples remain unpixelated. It’s unclear whether they were doing irony.

This lady has quite a following on Facebook.

4thwavenow.com/2017/10/25/born-in-the-right-body-introducing-4thwavenows-new-spokesperson-mom-of-a-teen-desister/

Psychotherapists warned that an agreement between the NHS and professional health bodies on the treatment of transgender people will lead to more children being diagnosed with gender dysphoria – the belief you are born in the wrong body. The agreement, known as the memorandum of understanding, which came into effect this month, bans therapists from practising ‘conversion therapy’ – trying to convince people with gender identity issues that they were born the right sex.

This is actually terrifying

The comments all seem to be gender critical too. Its odd that I agree with DM comments...feels all wrong

I did wonder who had done the redacting. If it was the Daily Mail then that means they're (perhaps inadvertently) going along with Alex having become a man.

It seems that the DM didn't seek permission to use the photos in their article, though as other Twitter users have pointed out, they are pictures that are freely available because the individual puts them out there as part of their "how to trans" online stuff.

(I was moderately amused to see them black out the nipples on the pre-trans Alex, but not on the post-trans Alex )

Do these pre-treatment councellors say to the child "I know you are unhappy being male, but if we treat you with drugs to stop you becoming an adult male, that doesn't mean when you grow up you will be a normally functioning female"

They should have it explained to them in adult terms.
If they are not old enough to understand sexual feelings and function , they are not old enough to undertand what they are giving up.

It's so wrong that on the one hand we are banning FGM (quite rightly) as it is child abuse which produces an adult woman with severly altered sexual function, yet allowing, nay promoting giving children drugs which will also mess up their sexual function (either male or female) for the rest of their life.

My 12 year old doesn't want to have children and thinks that sex is gross. If you asked him whether he was happy to proceed with treatment that would leave him unable to have children or enjoy sex, he absolutely wouldn't object because he doesn't know what he is giving up.

I agree with others that the Mail have pitched this right for their target audience, most of whom would not care less about the cotton ceiling or the other homophobic arguments of the TRAs

Good to see this in the Mail. Of course, they have their own agenda, which is any opportunity to bash the NHS. Still, if the Guardian isn't going to publish this kind of story, we have to rely on people like the Mail to do it.

That memorandum of understanding is terrifying - did no one actually think about it before implementing it?

At which point we've turned into "why oh why won't someone think of the children!" people.

I'm not best pleased sounding like I've come directly from the pages of the Daily Mail, I can tell you. Needs must I suppose.

I agree nauticant. What's going on with children within this movement is a good way to get people to listen to the madness that is taking over.

The great thing about the sterilisation discussion point is that it immediately grabs the attention and if anyone then says "what?! tell me more" this leads directly to the points in your post Datun. Anyone who has been "switched on" who then listens to that catalogue of gruesomeness is pretty likely to conclude that something very wrong indeed is going on.

nauticant

Agreed. Sterilisation and lack of sexual function.

If puberty blockers are decided at, say aged 9-11, these children are deciding to be permanently sterile and have no sex life at primary school.

It was a massive eye-opener to me when Jazz Jennings was told there wasn’t enough material to create a neo vagina. He is 17 and has never had an orgasm.

There are still, I believe, too few children who have gone through this for there to be much information.

But if you’re not going to create genitalia from existing genitalia, how do you ever create something that can have sexual sensation?

I find it profoundly shocking that puberty blockers, the first stage in transition, are directly responsible for a life of no sexual pleasure.

Jazz clearly wasn’t told. And even if he had been, what would his reaction be at age 11?

How could they not have known this?

It's good but it didn't mention homophobia.

In terms of what the article is for and the target audience, I disagree. One problem I see on the gender critical side is the urge to raise all of the points that are of concern. But this just induces fatigue in the average reader. Once they feel they're being lectured, chances are they'll switch off.

If the goal is to persuade them, the best thing to do is to pick up a few of the most convincing strands and put the rest to one side (for the moment).

To me, one of the best strands that unfortunately is rarely mentioned is the sterilisation of children/young people. This would get the attention of many people who would otherwise think "pah, not interested in this loony Left stuff".

This has got a huge class action in 10/20 yrs time written all over it. Hope these therapists and doctors have got water tight insurance policies.

I can't find it at the moment, but there was a really interesting article written a year or two ago, by a young woman who began to transition to male then eventually decide to revert to female.
But in the interim she had a mastectomy and testosterone treatment, both of which left her with irreversible sequelae which means that she will never be totally acceptable as her born sex, which is female.
So sad.

The whole thing shrieks The Emperor's New Gender to me

Good grief I give it 10 years before these therapists all get sued but annoyed adults who were taken seriously as teens.
Poor kids should be given the opportunity to discuss trans as mh issues without being encouraged by dodgy therapists.
The NHS needs to start saving for the lawyers bills.
Girls who take testosterone will have really masculinised features e.g. Jawbone, and that cannot be reversed.