anyone else been ditched by friends for having Gender critical views?

As regards the dear departed Andrea Dworkin, what she actually said way back in 1974 in 'Woman Hating' as regards sex-change surgery as it was then known was:
"This is an emergency measure for an emergency condition. Two, by changing our premises about men and women, role-playing, and polarity, the social situation of transsexuals will be transformed, and transsexuals will be integrated into community, no longer persecuted and despised. Three, community built on androgynous identity will mean the end of transsexuality as we know it."
To me, on a quick skim, this is saying she wanted an end to gender roles, and hence transsexuals experiencing a gender role that contradicted their sex would no longer be a problem. Dysphoria might still remain, but then nowadays (gender) dysphoria is no longer seen by TRAs as a necessary part of a claim to a trans identity. The claim itself is enough....................

I think user is responding to the OP, not my description of non-binary.

Nope

Yes, as far as I know, non-binary means that a person does not identify with either men or women. In any way. And they feel it isolates them.

In practice, I’m not sure how that would work.

Eating, sleeping, running, watching TV, bathing, drinking. None of these are gendered pursuits.

Even if you take extreme stereotypical masculine or feminine behaviour, none of them are confined to men or women.

Using power tools, baking, sewing, smoking cigars, playing rugby. All of these are just pursuits. Anyone can do them.

Most people are a mixture. Or take zero notice if something is considered masculine or feminine.

So the ‘feeling’ that you don’t fit it a specific stereotype, is fairly normal.

But giving it an ‘identity label’? That’s different. Now it’s special. Everyone has to know about it, you need to talk about it and people need to respond to you in a way that makes you feel validated.

Strictly speaking it would mean someone who is not 100% masculine and is not 100% feminine in all of their presentation, actions, and thoughts all of the time. In other words, all of us.

Trans rights activists will use it to mean anything that just happens to suit their arguments at any particular time.

And "non binary" - is that just a woman or man who are originally just that? I.e: they haven't changed? (Forgive my ignorance)

Thanks Quentin

Definitely queer AF.

Albadross and a stiff to you

That's unbelievable. I am so sick of hearing about Susie Green get all this fawning behaviour. I can't even write what I think of her as it would get deleted and she doesn't deserve any mitigation of words

What's Peter Tachell got to do with it all. I though he was more LBT rights? Am I thinking of someone else.

And the explanation that because people are more tolerant, therefore more kids are coming out doesn’t hold water.
Since it’s mostly girls, where are all the middle-aged women who are now unutterably relieved that they can finally be their true selves?

Before I joined MN, I thought I was a fairly ordinary, heterosexual middle-aged woman with the usual variety of hobbies and interests. I had a few relationships before getting married and having kids and am currently navigating the libido-sapping joys of peri-menopause (fans self and takes off cardi).

I have since learned that this means that I am in fact non-binary (or is it agender?), which also seems to make me trans, or queer, or both. I am also apparently demisexual and now greysexual too.

I never knew I was so special! Do I have to dye my greying hair blue so that everyone else will know?

And more importantly, was the grocer misgendering me when he called me Madam, despite the fact that I was wearing jeans and no makeup? Help, help, I'm being oppressed!

Do we know the figures for how many transwomen have committed murder in the UK per year?

(I know if you checked the figures for "violent crime, including serious sex crime" it would be higher.)

there’s only been what, one transgender person murdered in England since 2009?

Just in the interests of you having relevant info:

fairplayforwomen.com/trans-murder-rates

The figure seems to average out at around 1 a year.

I’m starting to need a serious intervention I think – at work they’re having a transgender day of remembrance with Susie Green and Peter Tatchell on a panel and I find it staggering that two women every week are murdered by men and there’s only been what, one transgender person murdered in England since 2009? According to Wikipedia anyway. I am so upset and angry that this shit is now getting into my work life too, and I’m powerless to say anything for fear of risking my job. I really just can’t cope with it anymore.

Aargh autocorrect is fucking me over again. Hope the gist is clear.

The transwomen I have met have been abused too. Bullied to fuck in single sextet [homophobic] schools, repressed in extreme Protestant [homophobic] families, from very conflict-ridden homes with absent fathers.Transition as a way of leaving that abused [gay,autistic] person behind makes total sense to me.

But none of this is relevant, because being transition is not a cultural or mental health phenomenon, is it? Apparently it's not allowed to be.

If transwomen are women without any kind of tangible, verifiable component, then women are also transwomen on the same basis.

Yes. They cannot tell 'cis' women they are not transwomen either, as then they have to refer back to biological sex to explain what a 'real' transwoman is..when apparently sex is irrelevant and does not exist. Its such a great way to get them to tie themselves in knots, I am surprised it wasn't thought of sooner tbh. It still wont protect women if the laws do get changed though..but its a good start.

I’ve definitely noticed a lot of infighting in the last couple of months. Transsexuals trying to distance themselves from autogynephiles, a huge difference of opinion over whether dressing in a feminine way should mean anything, non-binary people being dissed, etc.

Well yes, naturally transsexual people must find it all really bizarre,. and really, all these men just saying they are women and expecting lesbians to suck their female penises..a.re making a mockery of a genuine condition. I am not surprised that transsexuals are rebelling against being grouped in with these narcissistic misogynistic assholes, and those who simply have a fetish. Transsexualism should not be in with those people. We should have transsexuals...and the narcissists and fetishists. I don't even think the second group should have a proper name, I think they should just practice their fetishes but not invade female spaces to do so...and the narcissists should just crawl back under whatever rock they came from under. I would like the misogynists to do that too...but they won't, they will just regroup to discover another way they can attack womens rights.

I dunno. Who was it said you should never attribute something to malice what could be attributed to stupidity?

Maybe some really do think that medical science can work wonders and make them genuinely functioning female bodies. Maybe all the surrounding confusion that they are now having fed to them, including in school, means that they have no clue about the limits of actual biology.

My own daughter was very much under the impression that transitioning 'treatment' would change someone's genes so that they were then fully the opposite sex. After all, people were telling her that it was possible to transition and have the opposite puberty, and to do that, you'd need different genes, right? So she assumed it could be done. She had no idea how, but then, she's not a biochemist.

I had a bit of a head/table moment over that one. She's allegedly quite a bright child, after all.

Some people are just young, uninformed, a bit thick or a combination of all three.

Theres also the whole trans ID males believing they can actually have womb transplants. ... Its not logical. Its delusion.

Although it's medically impossible, that's not what lies at the heart of this. They would applaud these organs being removed, even though they'd then have to be chucked. Why would they think like this?

One answer: it is because it would remove the organs from women. It would make women lesser. It would serve as a punishment for women having the absolute gall in possessing these organs which transwomen can't have.

Anorexia is over represented in the trans-community. The theory is that because they are discriminated against, they turn to anorexia as a means of control.

It’s just a theory. A biased one in my opinion. And doesn’t account for people who have anorexia first.

Every single mental health issue or personality disorder that trans-people have often seems to be attributed to discrimination on the basis of the fact that they are trans.

Not that they are trans/deluded, because of their mental health/personality disorder.

(yes, she has blue hair, is that a thing?)

I blame this woman.

Where are all the middle aged women coming out as trans? Here, surely? I mean, Stonewall’s definition seems to cover most of us...

Postmodern thought has turned into something of an Achilles heel.