Patriarchy

So many points to consider here, but just on the subject of women not clomouring to do dirty, dangerous low paid jobs-I don't see men clamouring to be cleaners and care workers either! And the most dangerous job is prostitution- largely women in this country.

Alternaticetentacle- I don't know many women who want these jobs, I don't see the same media focus on it either. There is no need for your rude aggressive tone. No one ever persuaded anyone by being a dick.

Missymoo your post is hilarious unless of course you’re being ironic.

You’ve just described patriarchy and then said “what does it have to do with patriarchy?”

Patriarchy isn’t a conspiracy. It’s a system.

Ask yourself why there are no female Harvey Weinsteins? The vast majority of movie moguls are men and men such as HW know full well they can use their power to sexually harass young women who are much further down on the ladder and who are relying on him for work.

He chooses young lesser experienced women because he knows that they’ll be less likely to complain. Not only because of that but because they’ve seen what happens to women who do complain. You say rape isn’t considered socially acceptable. Search the internet for reaction to rape victims of high profile men who have come forward and see for yourself.

And of course women can practise patriarchy too. It’s not a black and white men against women. Look at mothers who force FGM on their daughters. They are women doing it to girls but the reason why they’re doing it (because an uncut girl is considered promiscuous and will not be able to find a husband thus lowering her chances of economic survival) is patriarchy at its finest.

Like I said it’s a system, not a conspiracy.

@Missymoo100 yeah we’d all like to think that, but sadly it’s not about what I think but what I see around me and many households are not like that. In many households still one person holds the power and that’s predominantly a male. I wonder why.

MissyMoo just because you don't want to believe in systemic inequality doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Your deconstruction of patriarchy suggests you've misunderstood the whole concept.

Patriarchy is the cultural hegemony in which we all exist. It privileges men and we all accept this because it's hard to recognise it as privilege- it's just reality. It's not about men v women, it's about how we view the world. Traditionally women have been very good at policing the patriarchy- hence female jurors being harsh in sexual harassment cases. It's such an entrenched mindset that women basically don't see what the problem is. In fact it kind of makes sense that men would be more sympathetic as they would be less likely to accept such behaviour towards themselves.

What's shocking about HW to me isn't that he abused his position of power, it's that I doubt that in the 1990's it would have even been seen as that bad. No one complained because it was part of the culture. Powerful men have always sexually predated on women: nothing to see here.

Lastly, women giving up in careers being a 'choice' is again problematic. Why is it usually women? Why do we make this short term win for a long term loss? It may feel like a choice but tradition, work infrastructure and societal expectations all collude in getting women to make that choice to their own financial detriment.

Feminism worked for my generation until we reached 30. Once we had kids there was no infrastructure to support us and many women I know have shouldered the burden of family care to their own financial detriment. It's problematic and it's not about blaming men or saying women are victims - it's so much more complicated than that. It's about challenging systems that still disadvantage 1/2 the population and not blaming women because they made 'bad choices'. In fact the whole idea of 'choice' is kind of problematic. I think we make very few real choices.

Rape, general violence- again what part of this patriarchy supports rape, where is it?

Take a look at a few newspaper reports about rape and sexual assault. If comments are open online, read through them. We are living with rape culture, it is excused and minimised constantly. Yes, women excuse and minimise it as well, because they have grown up with that attitude.

'I fell on her'

teenage sex assault victim was flattered

attacker walks free

victim blaming

Why don't we want to be fork lift truck drivers, refuse collectors, builders

Who says women don't want to be those things? I worked on the roads for over a decade, loved the job hated the sexism. Sexism due to arsehole statements and attitudes like this. You don't know what the fuck you are even on about do you?

everydayfeminism.com/2013/05/patriarchy-and-how-it-shows-up-for-everyone/

Even if I look up examples of patriarchy- you get the above bollocks. A list of examples where "patriarchy" is to blame

Female to female hostility- answer patriarchy- wtf? How are men to blame for that?
Parenting- children should be given a voice... err on what patriarchy household are they told to shut up? I suspect writer here is suggesting children should have more power.... i.e. Taking hormone blockers when they decide at the ripe old age of 10.
Queer relationships- again wtf, patriarch has decided one lesbian should take the "male role"- come on now, as a female do we not have the right to express ourselves as we wish? How is this patriarchy?
In fact this whole article is an example of the "blame the patriarchy" tripe that is unduly dominating feminism and detracting from making actual positive changes for women.

Rebelfreddy- is like to think that this is how most households are these days. Certainly is in mine, decisions are shared, respect is mutual and this is what is needed more mutual respect and less "smashing of patriarchy".

Thetoast- I'm not averaging out, I just don't see how "patriarchy" is the be all and end all answer to every feminist/women's issue- it isn't.
Yes women and children have died in wars goes without saying, but many more would die or be subjected to far worse if men hadn't lost their lives. Human nature isn't always good and I sincerely doubt smashing the partriatchy is a simple one stop fix to solve all world problems and wars.

Why does a household need a head?
We don’t have one. We make individual choices for ourselves and talk about joint things,and that’s more out of courtesy because we trust each other to make right choices. And when we don’t, we support each other and stick together to sort out the fallout.

Lineysrun- thank you for your well thought out answer!
MrsPratchett- I think
HW is a sex pest, but I don't see how a "patriarchy" is part of the problem, where is the actual social structure of patriarchy in place in USA and how do you feel it enabled this case? What part of the justice system supports patriarchy? The low conviction rates, are because of a high burden of proof. It's well known that a majority female jury is less sympathetic to rape victims, not patriarchy causing an injustice there.

About equal pay upto 30, yes because around this age women take time out to have kids, go part time etc... it's insulting to say these women don't know their own minds and are victims of a system stacked against them. These are bright capable women saying that they want to have more family time and nothing wrong with that!

Rape, general violence- again what part of this patriarchy supports rape, where is it? Men are more aggressive generally but I think it's biological basis, something that they can control but unfortunately can manifest itself.
Sexual harasment culture- because everyone turns the other cheek women too. When I was in school a male teacher used to be highly inappropriate towards female students- he would twang their bra straps, make comments about appearance. I recall a female teacher talking to us about it in general conversation. It was we'll known fact by everyone and overlooked. I don't see how this is "patriarchy"? It's too simplistic an answer. There is a culture of everyone ignoring stuff like this.., think saville, Rotherham, etc... people knew and chose not to act, not patriarchy.
As for female toilet cleaners, last time I checked there were plenty o male cleaners too?
Battle axe- how do you feel medical system is patriarchy? If it's lack of females then it may be to do with lots of females opting to do general practice and then going part time.
I agree single parents don't get much help, but again there are females in power, why don't they do something? Where is the patriarchy stopping this?
Plump squirrel- your sister, like myself represent lots of women who value raising children and are willing to turn down a promotion. I don't want sympathy, I don't feel I'm a statistic reflecting "injustice". I genuinely feel women prefer to have this option, in general to men and don't really want to give it up.
Sonic boom- yes maybe my daughter will have a drop in her wage if she takes time out like me to have a baby- again this doesn't make her a victim.
How does the problem of rape come down to patriarchy? Where in our social structure does it say rape is acceptable? Not saying there isn't a problem, I just fail to see how the buzzword of patriarchy is so relevant
I don't want to bring up my daughters with a victimhood mentality that there whole reality is being dictated to by men because it isn't. Yes they might not make it into the boardroom, So what? Is this the pinnacle of female achievement that we must all aspire to?

I'm grateful for the men that have died for the things we take for granted.

In war, 50% of deaths are non-combatants (ie, women, children, elderly) - this has been pretty consistent throughout the ages.

I've always thought that the ideal would be more of a team - two adults looking around them and getting stuff done - perhaps one person takes responsibility for a task like car insurance, but both are responsible for changing the loo roll for instance. I think that as a rule, if you've got good communication, you don't need a 'head of household' - even my example of car insurance, it's not like the other person doesn't need to know about it - you'd at least say 'Oh, I was sorting out the car insurance, I think we'll go with Swinton's this year because they've offered a good deal'

Your experience as an individual doesn't really matter when society is structured on such a way to disadvantage women overall.

You can't "average out" equality because some women have it better than others.

He cuts the grass 4 times a night every night?

All I hear supporting this notion is that only x% of women are in boardrooms... which ignores lifestyle choices women make, i.e. Having children- and undermines the fact many women want this

Men want children too but that doesn't seem to affect the number of men in the boardroom does it?

I’d have thought she might have a better chance than the average guy if quotas are put in place. Like how women have a 2:1 chance of getting the job when compared to men in some STEM subjects. Even if not, it’s not like the average guy ends up a director by any stretch - it’s certainly not an objective anyone can take as a given.

I am not going to bring my daughters up telling them they will never amount to anything, they must play out the victim role, because the "patriarchy" is against them, because it isn't true! they can achieve anything they want.

Except if she wants to make it to the boardroom, eh. Because even if they work hard at school, get good grades, go to a top university, get a great graduate job that pays more than most men and excel in the role - she'll still be overtaken by a dozen mediocre colleagues called John by the time she is 30.

And she'll still be at risk of sexual assault every time she goes for a night out with friends.

Not much of a Win, is it.

Being one of two males in a team of nine, I’ve personally seen several of my female colleagues (mostly in their 30s) miss out on advancement opportunities through having children. I don’t know what the solution is though - the company typically wants somebody to start their new role ASAP as it’s driven by a specific business need.

My sister had a senior job in the MOD and gave it up to have several children over the past decade. Had she not done so she would undoubtedly have been promoted again as she was one of the most respected in her team.

The UK medical system - patriarchal.

OP, how are you defining "head of the household"? Biggest earner? Bossiest adult? Best houseworker?