Regardless of colour, do you think women's clothes are designed to make women look ridiculous?

On the other side of it, when I borrow DH's t-shirts and jumpers I don't find them as soft and comfortable as my own and I feel a bit sorry for him. I tend to buy tops in a 12-14, though I'm more 8-10 in a top, because I don't like them fitted.

But why is it so hard to fathom that other women don't find them comfortable?

I don't .It is the ridiculous hyperbole I find so irritating and silly.

And the patronising faux- disbelief comments like "why do women wear them"-(said with reference to ballet flats) why would that be so hard to fathom ?

As for the "can't wear flats to a wedding" t
line - seriously who do you (general you) think notices or cares? More hyperbole to give you (general you) something to complain about.

For lovers of flat shoes I give you en brogue. Pockets are an issue, I've just spent the last 2 days with no pockets and it has been a complete pain in the neck. Jeans to work tomorrow!

My toes are pretty much where they should be though my dm's were dreadful

But i had a pair of shoes from M&S the other day which were touted as being very comfortable

They are agony

Still wear them but only if i am walking from car to restaurant and back

there is a lack of classy dressing. i see women dressed in awful outfits though to be fair they probably think my androgynous is hideous.

I just find plain colours and a good cut with clothing it simple. you can accessorise with loopy jewellery if you so wish. i have always preferred the utilitarian fashions of the 80s. uniqlo is great for this

I've thought a lot about shoes in recent years, with a kind of sadness that people actually start to deform their feet from quite an early age, though girls/women force it more. I get DS's shoes from www.happylittlesoles.co.uk as he has flattish feet and research pointed me towards barefoot shoes. Since then I've got a few pairs for myself from vivobarefoot. Interestingly, their men's and women's are mainly the exact same. I have quite long feet and ordered one pair of men's that were on sale.

My DM's toes are terribly bunched together. Mine are fairly ok, but I never worked in a formal wear work setting where heels or court shoes or narrow loafer types were a requirement.

Men's dress shoes can also be desperately uncomfortable, and I've seen DH pulling his off complaining. But usually he wears comfortable, casual brown suede lace-ups as his work is more chinos than suits.

I've also noticed the pockets as my DM and I inherited DH's clothes when he put on weight. I did find that jeans weren't as stretchy comfortable in some ways as they didn't have any elastane. But they fit so much better room wise! Even though I'm a pear shape and they shouldn't, but they are no much roomier around the arse and hips that they do. The denim is stronger too so you feel more covered wearing them, and lumps and bumps aren't as obvious as in clinging women's jeans.

You are assuming that "women's" shoes means heels and points.

Nope. You explicitly mentioned court shoes, which have some heel. Almost all shoes are pointier than the natural shape of feet.

I have flats, low heels, a few high heels, pointed toe, round toes, square toes. The common factor is they are shoes which are designed to be pretty. They are also comfortable and I can walk in them.

Bully for you. But why is it so hard to fathom that other women don't find them comfortable? And are annoyed that the vast majority of women's shoes are similarly uncomfortable because they deform the bone structure in your foot!

I never mentioned Birkenstocks, btw. Other Brands Are Available

Lass if you comfortably wearing court shoes all day, then I'd wager you've been wearing them for years and your feet have adapted. Years of wearing pointed or heeled shoes (which push your toes forward into the front of a shoe) changes the alignment of your toe joints

You are assuming that "women's" shoes means heels and points. There is a huge range and variety of shoes. This idea that there are all these terrible women's shoes and the only sensible option is Birkenstock is just nonsense.

I have flats, low heels, a few high heels, pointed toe, round toes, square toes. The common factor is they are shoes which are designed to be pretty. They are also comfortable and I can walk in them.

Ditto with very interesting article, Milli!!

BTW, there are/used to be some folks making suits for butchs, which was taking the standard 3-piece and adapting it to a womans shape. Okay, IF we were all rich enough to afford a tailored suit, we could all do it..........

Anyway, apart from considering my new career possibilities, I just HAD to go and order myself another pair of DMs for winter..........

I must say, POCKETS, pockets, pockets seems to be the rallying cry! But then you need clothes of a style of fabric and tailoring that they actually work to carry the stuff you need to carry. Back in the dim and distant past when I was younger, there was quite a thing with feminists who made clothes for women, with snazzy fabrics, pockets etc etc. I had some stonking feminist-print trousers made at one point, which Andrea Dworkin (name-drop, name-drop!), greatly admired when she was doing a book signing................

I agree with a pp about it being an issue with some women not being able to dress their body shape. I also agree that there can be some beautiful, well cut, practical clothes if you have the means and are willing to pay higher prices. Personally, I love fashion. I enjoy high end collections and admire them as I would art in a gallery (although I do understand that it wouldn't be practical for everyday life). I love woman's shoes that are dainty and feminine whether they are flat or heeled. I like having the option to buy these items. I love to experiment with makeup and hair styles and to dress up when I feel like it. I don't feel pressured to do it and I really don't care what others think of me (I can also quite often be found in jeans, a hoodie and trainers if that's what I feel like that day). For me it's about options. If there e more practical options available too, that would be great. It's about catering to different tastes I suppose.

I can see why you would say you can't wear Birkenstocks or DMs to a wedding. But not smart flats.

I wouldn't say I'm especially rebellious in my clothing choices but I've never felt out of place in smart flats at a wedding and never had any comments.

Lass if you comfortably wearing court shoes all day, then I'd wager you've been wearing them for years and your feet have adapted. Years of wearing pointed or heeled shoes (which push your toes forward into the front of a shoe) changes the alignment of your toe joints.

Women's shoes are far worse than men's for forcing toes into unnatural shapes. It's why "pretty" or "feminine" feet have sloped, bunched-in toes - it's an artifact of wearing constrictive shoes with a narrow toe box. Toe misalignment affects stance and balance, and puts strain on the knees, hips and back. Women who go barefoot rather than wear shoes simply don't have that foot shape (or the accompanying joint strain).

So yes, women's shoes are typically awful, particularly formal shoes, because they quite literally deform women's feet. Men's shoes don't do it to anywhere near the same extent. Just because an individual personally finds pointed or heeled shoes comfortable doesn't negate that fact.

Don't know what weddings you've been to where you couldn't wear flats though. It's not exactly Cannes and even Royal Ascot has no rules about shoe heels

Quite. But it is so much fun complaining about how oppressed you are by not being able to wear Birkenstocks to a wedding.

Flat , smart shoes at a wedding are really not a big deal-especially if the rest of your outfit is smart. I wore navy patent flat shoes to a very posh wedding in London earlier this month. I don't think anyone was pointing and staring.

I think it’s more about people not being able to dress themselves properly for their body shape rather than the designers purposely making ‘wrong’ clothes. Nobody’s body is the same, so one girl could pull off a midi dress and heels whereas another looks best in high waisted jeans and a shirt.

I’d definitely vote somedyke as head of M&S clothing.

I buy hiking trousers ....6 pockets (2 zipped) and wear trainers and t shirts. Stopped caring too much what impression this gives. Hopefully one of a person with comfy feet and somewhere to put her phone.

Obviously I mean "they can walk in them" Not you.

Very interesting article, Milli.

That women are disproportionately affected by this is a reflection of women being seen as decorative objects

Yep, this is one of those situations where capitalism and the patriarchy get along very well (for each other, not for us).

Don't know what weddings you've been to where you couldn't wear flats though. It's not exactly Cannes and even Royal Ascot has no rules about shoe heels.

but I wonder why so many women wear them?

Because they like them? They are comfortable to wear? You can walk in them? They don't need your permission?

And you talk about me being dismissive.

Heels is difficult. I wear them everyday for work because I'm a short arse and otherwise people talk over my head. And heeled booths or shoes with an ankle strap are more comfortable than ballet pumps imo.
I don't think clothes are designed to look ridiculous but I do think they are restrictive due to no pockets etc.
Tights are a nightmare but I find it almost impossible to find trousers that fit me round the waist and bottom so dresses are much easier!