Giles Coren on Weinstein and what a terrible shame it is that women have to power to ruin a sex pest's career

"Someone linked on another thread to a piece by a male American stand up - basically his line was "Would you, as a man, feel comfortable if another man said this to you while you were both in prison? If not, don't say it!"

I don't get the prison thing. If you wouldn't do it to a man or say it to a man, don't do it or say it to a woman. Simple.

Wow, nauticant, I know what you mean - that’s do disturbing it can’t be real, surely?

Surely that twitter quote has to be a fake?

But the original article - yuck. As Winchester says if you can't work out the difference between flirting and harrassment - just don't do it.

(Someone linked on another thread to a piece by a male American stand up - basically his line was "Would you, as a man, feel comfortable if another man said this to you while you were both in prison? If not, don't say it!")

I'd be quite interested in what any female co-workers of Giles would say about what he's like to work with. On the basis of this article, one can only imagine...

Aside from anything else (like ‘just touching’ - WTF?), how is it a huge revelation that you don’t sign off work emails with kisses?

How the fuck has it taken him this long to work that out???

If you want to put this into perspective, here's what Coren had to say about his daughter:

twitter.com/dannyaharrison/status/921669987491819520

I post that still wondering if it's fake and I've been taken for a mug.

I think a LOT of men don't know the boundary though. It really would be better for them to stop ALL workplace flirting.

Yeah, the full thing is still awful. He won't smile back at a woman who smiles at him in case it's misconstrued? And he's going to stop telling jokes because he likes it when women laugh?
Good lord.
Consent is not that difficult to understand.
Although, he's right about one thing. If he genuinely is too dim to figure out where the boundary lies between flirting and sexual harassment , he probably shouldn't be flirting.

And the self-pity. Don't forget the self-pity.

""Women have suffered sexual microaggressions (and macro ones) at the hands of men for thousands of years. All of them, from what I can make out, by all of us. And I don’t want to run the slightest risk of being seen to have any part in any of it any more."

I don't have an issue with this. In a different context it might be quite a powerful statement and one I wish more men would make. However, when surrounded by all the "possiblys" and "probablys" and "maybes"..........

And the women on that Twitter feed get it. A few men are saying it doesn’t seem that bad. Tells you all you need to know.

Was hoping for this thread! The article is awful. Really disingenuous, it's pretending to be all 'I care about women's feelings' while actually screaming that all he cares about is his own feelings and women need to get back in their box.

just thought the guy was a sex pest

Exactly Quentin! It’s so minimising and depressing that we all expect this behaviour from men at some point in our lives.

So much blame on the victims for not coming forward sooner but when this kind of behaviour is so normalised and expected in Hollywood than why would they think that anyone would listen?

Oh FFS it's practically impossible to get a rape conviction. No fucker is doing anything about someone being mildly flirty in the workplace.

Dear men, if in doubt keep your hands and comments to yourself. Job done.

"Women have suffered sexual microaggressions (and macro ones) at the hands of men for thousands of years. All of them, from what I can make out, by all of us. And I don’t want to run the slightest risk of being seen to have any part in any of it any more."

This is a telling paragraph, isn't it?

Women have been the subject of sexual aggression. And what does Giles think about that? He is worried how he looks to other people. He doesn't want to run the risk of being sexually aggressive towards women, not because of how the women might feel, but because it might be seen badly and it may reflect negatively on his career, the poor lamb.

Oh, and serial cockwomble got a written warning. I am still really angry that someone can have a long history of sexually harassing their colleagues and not get the sack.

Incidentally am obviously not suggesting that Weinstein is a mere sex pest.

This is interesting. What exactly is a "mere sex pest"? I think that's exactly what Weinstein is and I think the phrase "sex pest is used precisely to minimise and dismiss predatory behaviour.

I had an incident at work, turned out the guy was a serial cockwomble and was known for it. My boss later apologised and said he knew something was going on but dismissed it as he "just thought the guy was a sex pest".
My boss was a straight up excellent man too, one of the good guys and still thought that.
There's no such thing as a harmless sex pest any more than just unwanted touching.

And on the subject of these poor misaccused men, why is the general reaction to blame women for pushing back too much?

Surely the blame should lie with those men guilty of sexual harassment for creating an atmosphere of mistrust between men and women and for giving their own sex a bad reputation. Let’s blame them.

I think it happens in some workplaces but not all. I wish I could tell the story I know if but I can't because it would be immediately obvious who I am to anyone who knows what happened.

Very very few people ever get into trouble for the appallling rubbish inflicted on women by many men in the workplace. But when they do it isn't the real major offenders who get caught

I think the wrong men sometimes do get the full brunt of policies meant to prevent this stuff.

I’ve literally never known any man been castigated in the workplace for lewd behaviour towards a woman.

We have a guy who regularly hits on women in our workplace. No one has mentioned this to seniors because no one wants to be seen as being “politically correct” or causing a fuss by being “that girl”.

Oh poor Giles, he can't tell the difference between being a bit flirty and charming and making someone feel scared and disgusted. Everyday interactions must be hell for him.

I meant women might not be happy

Giles, sounds like Broadmoor rather than north London is your rightful home.

I’m sure Giles has a perfectly good grasp on boundaries and what is acceptable or not. He’s just pandering to the hysterical and historical fear of the collective male psyche that women are always waiting, meat cleavers at the ready, to chop their balls off in a bid for world domination!

He’s a literary prostitute.

It's a bit of a daft piece because it mixes the more or less sensible - men should be curbing flirting and sex in workplace and might not be happy with an xx sign off, with a daft it's all about me and I might be falsely accused gloss.

I think the wrong men sometimes do get the full brunt of policies meant to prevent this stuff.

Most of the worst offenders are so powerful they go untouched and occasionally minor offenders get sacked for not much as a token to show hr dept take all this seriously . i can't tell the full story I know about this as it would out me.

Or be locked up. If the boundaries between acceptable behaviour and imprisonable offences is so hard to navigate, Giles, sounds like Broadmoor rather than north London is your rightful home.