Giles Coren on Weinstein and what a terrible shame it is that women have to power to ruin a sex pest's career

Reading anything by Toby young has a similar effect.

That was my second thought, too.

My first was that I think poor little Gilesey-Wilesey’s conscience, such as it is, is troubling him.

From the Mother & Baby article:

My wife Esther gave birth for the second time three months ago, and I’m DESPERATE for her to lose the weight...I want my super-hot, wasp-waisted, killer-boobed sexpot wife back from the old days.

Then he describes how he concocted a plan to trick her into losing weight for his own benefit!

And he thinks it’s his age that’s making him appear unattractive?

Let's face it, it suits men to believe there are scenarios where you could "accidentally" harass someone

^ this. This is exactly why women dont report harassment/assault/rape, because they are invariably told that they've 'overreacted'. It's totally possible to misread the signals someone is giving you (whether you're male or female) but women don't go round crying harassment when that genuinely is the case. And we really can tell the difference between misunderstanding and entitlement.

The full text doesn't exonerate him at all. There is so much wrong with it. If anything, it's worse than the shocking tweets. A lot of words feeling sorry for himself and the other poor male victims.
I'm repulsed by the idea that sexual harassment by an attractive man would be welcomed. Is burglary ok if the perpetrator is rich and therefore doesn't really need the swag?
As a pp mentioned, apparently men can now rape and murder women without it affecting their career. I'm sure Giles' will survive if one of the teeth-gritters comes forward.
The first rule of writing is 'write about what you know'. Cohen doesn't have a fucking clue what it means to be a woman. I don't want Weinstein swept under the carpet but we really don't need articles by clueless men telling us how to feel about sexual harassment, assault and rape. Editors should be calling their female columnists to report from the frontline. Leave Cohen and cronies in their clubs, trying not to flirt with waitresses. We don't need to hear about it.

It's certainly what came to my mind. Very much an "if I have done something, and I'm not saying I have, it will be more of a misunderstanding over etiquette than anything else".

Ah yes. Getting the special pleading in in advance. Makes sense.
Nothing else about the article does.

Oh! I get it now.
Women were only repulsed by Weinstein, and accusing him of assault because he's old and ugly. And now Giles is also old and ugly he better start watching how he treats women and girls in case they start "coming out of the woodwork" and accusing him of all sorts because they don't fancy him.
It's so weird, because the majority of men who have tried to rape/touch/kiss me without my consent have actually been quite conventionally attractive.
But I'm probably lying about that as my silly little women brain gets all confused.
Can he really be this stupid?? He can't really think a bit of flirting with a waitress is going to be considered abuse now that he is losing his hair or whatever??
Maybe he's having some kind of breakdown.
And that thing about his baby daughter is revolting and should probably see him on some sort of register. .

"Ughh. Why is he paid to write this shit?"

I agree - was just thinking the same thing.

I know columnists have been paid to write inanities for decades, but I honestly wonder whether they will be replaced soon by rather more able people, who have rather more of a clue. There's a whole new generation of brilliant essayists out there who are producing really thoughtful, stimulating, intellectually-rich, well-written material. Surely the days of the self-indulgent wank spewed by people whose egos overshadow their ideas must be ending?

@LonginesPrime max clifford speaking after the Saville abuse scandal springs to mind...

Ughh. Why is he paid to write this shit?

And this constant refrain of "when does flirting turn into harassment" as if that is somehow really, really difficult
I just see this as them getting their defence in early. Same as the whole "grey areas" that people like to go on about with rape.
Let's face it, it suits men to believe there are scenarios where you could "accidentally" harass someone. Either because it means they don't have to face up to how many men are predators (if they are decent men). Or because it enables them to BE predators.
I'm so fucking sick of the whole thing.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.motherandbaby.co.uk/amp/for-you/parenting-the-funny-side/giles-coren-i-m-not-fat-why-should-my-wife-be

His wife is awesome. I follow her on Instagram and she's funny and V V honest.

However I often do not know how she puts up with him. He seems quite hard to live with as he has verbal diarrhoea and expresses every thought in his head, no matter how fucking idiotic. She seems to spend most of her time rolling her eyes at him and calling him an idiot.

But one thing that stayed with me is on her old blog Recipe Rifle or whatever, she said that during an argument he called her fat. She had two babies during this time. I remember that whenever I see him. I doubt she's ever been above a size 12 in her life.

I stood up to the office wolf and never fucking heard the last of it. Literally every comment after that alluded to the fact I wasn't there to be chatted up. It was an object lesson to other women in the office to shut up and put up.
Men like this lack the ability to detect or use nuance, or at least pretend they do so as to make women put up with their shit.

I'm just surprised Giles didn't manage to shoehorn in the old trope of not being allowed to hold doors open for women without being shouted at by angry harridans. It's another harrowing example of the many, many ways that the world is so difficult for the modern gentleman. What is a chap to do when he's not allowed to smile at the fillies any more?

And YY to how concerned he is about how it makes him look, not about how it makes women feel. He's missed the point so comprehensively on every level it's actually quite impressive.

And this constant refrain of "when does flirting turn into harassment" as if that is somehow really, really difficult.. It's like the people who winge about political correctness - "You can't say anything nowadays......"

Longines when I see stuff written like this, it does make me wonder if there is some "advance defence" going on, for sure

The staggering thing about that article is the idea that women would WANT to be sexually harassed or assaulted by a good-looking, young guy (presumably it would automatically be consensual as we're such air-heads that we can't help ourselves around sexy alpha males), but that it suddenly becomes unacceptable when the guy is ugly and older.

Oddly enough, when I was younger, good-looking guys suddenly become highly UNattractive when they are suddenly groping your butt unasked. Because there's nothing less sexy than a sudden abject sense of discomfort, indignity and fear - Who is this guy, why is he touching me, am I safe?

Coren is so fundamentally stupid and misguided.

Popchyk-I absolutely agree. In the context of the rest of the article it is grim. I suppose what I was trying to say is that I wish more men would show commitment- in a "justice done and seen to be done" way.

With the romantic DD article and this, it very much sounds like he genuinely has no self-awareness.

It’s very odd to write public articles saying ‘oh, touching women without their consent isn’t appropriate now - who knew?’ Well, actually, Giles, everyone else knew that..

So I’d say he clearly has very little understanding of the issues he’s writing about. Perhaps the Weinstein thing has made him realise that he’s guilty of sexual harassment too and he wants to garner some advance support because he’s worried about who might speak out against him.

SuburbanRhonda, yes, that is what I was trying (and failing) to get across.

If he is sexually aggressive towards women, he is saying that he doesn't want to suffer the negative consequences of that (reputation, career).

He is not actually concerned that the women themselves have to suffer from his sexual aggression in the first place.

He is presenting himself as the victim of something that he chooses to do, whilst entirely ignoring the actual impact on the innocent person concerned.

Quite a feat.

Well that article is seriously shit isn't it? Giles, in case you ever read this thread, here are some notes for you:

1. Referring to sexual assault as 'just touching' is abhorrent. There are limited situations where touching a woman's breasts, genitals or arse is acceptable and there are exactly no situations where it is acceptable to do so without consent.
2. Cornering a woman, who is in effect an employee, in a hotel room while wearing a bathrobe and demanding a massage is not wrokplace flirting, it is sexual harassment. If you are doing this (or anything vaguely like it) then yes, you should be sacked and your career ruined.
3. No woman has ever complained about a man just smiling at her in the street.
4. Not one single man in the history of existence has ever been jailed for 'flirting'. Most men who are guilty of sexual harassment, sexual assault or rape are not jailed and those behavious are actually illegal whereas flirting is not.
5. From a woman's perspective the difference between flirting and sexual harassment is the behaviour itself and not how attractive/young the man is. You can be old and ugly and be flirting just as you can be young and attractive and a rapist.
6. Putting kisses on emails is not sexual harassment but it is unprofessional, surely that's the best reason to stop doing it? The last and most important point is this:
7. If you are unable to differentiate acceptable behaviour from unacceptable behaviour, or you find yourself incapable of telling when a woman is uncomfortable with your behaviour then try this: BEHAVE TOWARDS HER THE SAME WAY YOU WOULD A MAN.

And then I sit and stare at her, like the dippiest lover, not talking, transfixed by her beauty. Unable quite to drink it all in. Missing heartbeats at the way she gazes out at the sea through her long, curling lashes while slurping Coke through her pursed, plump little lips.

And doing this I realise how being on holiday with my tiny daughter is the most insanely romantic holiday, in some ways even the sexiest holiday, that I’ve ever had.

He got some flak for this too

i think the idea of the prison thing is to bring home to men the power imbalance. Imagine yourself in a situation with someone physically stronger than you, where you cannot get away, and where the authorities probably won't give a shit. Because this for many women is everyday life, and for men, they float through life in this protective bubble of never really feeling that physically threatened (barring odd occasions like walking into the wrong pub on match day - the idea that women might feel that level of high alert simply walking across a supermarket car park at 5pm on a winter's night just doesn't enter their consciousness).

And I don’t want to run the slightest risk of being seen to have any part in any of it any more.

I do have a problem with this. What he should be saying is, “I don’t want to have any part in it any more.”

Otherwise, as popchyk says, it shows that all he cares about it how he appears to other people, not the fact he’s behaving badly towards women.