Number of trans people who are murderers is greater than the number of trans people who are murder victims in UK **Title amended by MNHQ**

Oh gosh...it looks like im replying to hebe

I just didnt refresh

What's funny is that in the time since it was first started the "you're all evil witches because" arguments haven't evolved at all.

Me too. The fact it's a zombie thread is significant. Because the person complaining about it would have had to have actively gone looking. Rather than just coming across it.

I know its a zombie thread but im really appreciating the irony of it being reanimated by someone telling people off for writing the thread!

m1randa1

Don't be silly. (Odd choice of name by the way).

Women would have zero interest in how many transwomen were murderers, if they weren't continually told that transwomen are overwhelmingly the victim, rather than the perpetrator. And that they do not conform to male pattern violence. (It never ceases to amaze me how some people are under the impression that women are doing this for fun.)

Women, especially feminists, are extremely well-informed about male violence. The statistics, and the breakdown of categories.

It's nothing new, stop trying to pretend it is.

In order to even find this thread, you would have to be googling for it. If your child is doing that, I suggest you try a different approach, rather than condemn what they are finding. Because they are always going to find it.

Once again, facts aren't transphobic, nor bigoted. And if you find them so, you need to adjust your thinking. You also need to desist from telling women that they must stop protecting themselves using evidence.

Call men out on their violence, not the women who are the victims of it.

So, here's my take on the idea that women shouldn't be allowed to discuss this because it might upset someone's trans child. This is not at all good parenting, and it's not the fault of the individual parent because it's something all trans orgs seem to encourage.

A trans child is a child who's gender non-conforming. That's something their peers may be unkind to them about. Which is shit, but not unique to those particular children - kids are horrible to each other about all kinds of things. If the child were being bullied for, say, having acne, or being fat, we wouldn't be encouraging parents to tell the child that they have perfectly clear skin or that they're actually very slim, or attempting to control the ability of anyone to comment on the acne or the chubbiness in even the most benign way (because that's impossible). Instead we'd be encouraging parents to tell the child that they're lovable anyway, and that beauty isn't the only thing that matters, and to help the child to develop enough emotional resiliency that when some people inevitably do give them a hard time it doesn't destroy them. With trans kids what parents are being encouraged to do is tell the child that rather than being a GNC child of the sex they are they're actually a totally gender conforming child of the opposite sex (but calling it gender, because why not confuse the child even more) and that anyone who perceives them as, say, a boy with an interest in things society deems feminine is both incorrect and a horrible person who's out to hurt them. What this does is create a situation where even comments that aren't intended unkindly are perceived as deliberate cruelty and as a threat to the child's sense of self. Instead of learning resiliency, the child learns to collapse in on themselves and avoid any space in which everyone isn't going along with the fiction that they're not the sex they actually are.

The problem with that (well, one of the problems) is that there's always going to be some bugger who's going to point out that the Emperor is naked no matter how much pressure there is to praise his fine garments, and it's impossible to prevent that from happening. So if you send your children out into the world believing that it can be prevented then you're setting them up to crumble every time it does.

Why do that to a child? It may seem kind in the short term, but it's not.

How have trans activists convinced so many people and authorities that their risks of murder and suicide are higher than anyone else's, when there is no evidence at all that it is true, and plenty of evidence it isn't? All they actually have is dubious info based on 'self reports' via anonymous online surveys.

If anyone even asks for real information about this, they get accused of transphobia.

It is all a big lie.

This type of male violence is relevant now for obvious reasons. Violence against women is no new thing. We can read it about it in the paper every day. Like most women, I change my behaviour to minimise the risk of being at the receiving end of it (hasnt worked btw). The proposed changes to the GRA mean that I will have to come up with new strategies to minimise that risk as I no longer have the protection of women's spaces. That is why it was being talked about a year gap and why it is still relevant now.

Again, I'm sorry your daughter is upset but women receiving flak for discussing the violence against them is not novel.

We are talking about transwomen murderers because transmen haven’t murdered anyone

What we are talking about is male violence. Being trans had no bearing on this, apart from the fact that we are now being expected to welcome males into our spaces if they say they are trans. Hence this discussion.

But I will leave this board as it is toxic

Don't let the door hit you on the bum. Although, having said that, the usual pattern is a very hollow threat to leave ...

Im afraid you do appear to have an agenda, coming onto a feminist board which centres discussion of women and girls and their issues to scream Why can't you just be nicer!!!!

With respect, this isn't about individuals this is about a nuclear attack on the rights of women and girls and about male VAWG.

Are you bringing your child up to be so entitled as to think that an entire website of people who they don't even know should stop talking about crime statistics because they find it a bit upsetting?
Seriously, that's ridiculous. And won't do your child any good going forward.
Teach them to take responsibility for their own emotions and that the world does not revolve around them.

But why are you targeting only transgender women who murder? How can you possibly argue that what I have said is offensive. You are creating a hostile climate for a small minority group. But I will leave this board as it is toxic. I see my daughter's point.

What doctorbarbie said.

Bumping a year old thread back to the page of the page probably wasnt a good idea then.

But now we're here....

I find it offensive that you would come into a thread discussing people who have been killed to talk about how it's not fair to mention the people that murdered them. Would it be better to pretend these things never happened? I'm sorry your daughter finds it offensive. I find it offensive that discussions where women are talking about things which affect us are shut down repeatedly to appease the feelings of others'.

Would your son think a discussion about male violence was also a witch hunt against him?

Own goal. I have no agenda. I don't know about zombie threads, but I have a transgender daughter who finds this type of discussion very upsetting. She takes it very personally. She feels part of a witch hunt and that isn't nice.

Well, that was a bit of an own goal by the person who posted in outrage that we would dare to mention the facts about transgender violence, wasn't it?

The bottom line is, nobody on here thinks all transgender people are violent, but I take strong exception to the idea that we are not allowed to talk about those who are. Not least when we are being expected to dismantle existing safeguards for their benefit.

ZOMBIE THREAD!!!!!!

Transcrime UK figures uses the Trans Murder Monitoring figures but modifies them (as below):

The list below differs slightly from the TMM report in that two cases in the UK have been excluded (as they were subsequently revealed not to be homicides), and one homicide that TMM does not (yet) include has been added.

It also lists: UK homicides perpetrated by transgender individuals 2008-2017

transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/16/trans-homicides-in-the-uk-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers/

Start a campaign to stop street harassment against trans people and I’ll support it.

In the meantime, the only activism I see regarding trans people is concerned with removing rights for women, such as the right to single sex provision.

Stop with that shit and we won’t need to scrutinise the kinds of people trying to get into our spaces

Why have you resurrected a zombie thread? Not able to find anything recent to fit your victim narrative?

I find extraordinary that you'd go scrolling through mumsnets looking to be offended by the literal violence of words.

Thanks for bumping though hun xx