Linda Bellos is on Newsnight

no platforming and debate based around faux-psychology jargon.
intersectionality and the like is just all nonsense talk. no wonder people don't take many of the humanities graduates seriously.

i have full respect for many psychologists, but they need to clean up their act and start talking about facts.

"Paris always comes across badly. I don't think Paris perceives that."

No Paris doesn't. I wonder if Paris would be on telly or be a journalist if they weren't trans and attractive trans.

I can see that the introduction of student fees is the biggest factor in that but you can see the same trend in the US Universities as well and they have always had fees, or didn't they? I actually don't know that.
I wonder how the situation is in countries with free education. I have two nieces who went to German universities but I don't see or talk to them much.

It’s to do with the way it is funded, I believe.

‘Student satisfaction’ leads directly to a grading system which leads directly to funding.

The league tables are partly based on the student satisfaction tick box.

Which could mean anything. It could mean that the beer is cheap at the students union. Although, I believe there are specific subdivisions like how often you get to see your tutor.

But it’s a system where students are now consumers. And therefore they can dictate the product.

I thought the student who said something like "I'm paying £9.5K a year and for that I expect not to be confronted with anything I feel uncomfortable about" (I'm paraphrasing, I can't make myself watch it again) would be shortchanged of that is really how universities teach now. It's such a different view of what I think a university education is for.

I hope this is backed up by more than rhetoric. Encouraging though.

Relevant to this, in The Times today, Jo Johnson is going to do something about 'no platforming':

Here's the shareable link to the full piece:

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-ordered-to-guarantee-free-speech-wxzcr32hh?shareToken=2e12b14c846e9999dc280838fb947049" target="_blank">https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-ordered-to-guarantee-free-speech-wxzcr32hh?shareToken=2e12b14c846e9999dc280838fb947049

And comment on it:

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-challenged-cmhl3bmkq?shareToken=c5bc27f47b3d4a09111fb3522992c482" target="_blank">https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-challenged-cmhl3bmkq?shareToken=c5bc27f47b3d4a09111fb3522992c482

I don’t know how long this special snowflakery has been going on in universities, but these students are now entering the workplace.

They will be formulating policy and directing guidelines.

That was really interesting, and kind of hopeful in that I think the people in favour of "safe spaces" came across very badly.

I agree with the guy who said that they ought to talk about these things in freshers week - I still can't help thinking this is quite a niche view that just gets shouted out very loudly and people don't want to speak against for worry of being shouted down. Surely most students get that the whole bloody point of uni is to make you think and challenge you.

And as for trigger warnings on lecture content. Bloody hell. I can't help thinking if they did the reading they'd know the content of the bloody books.

I think Linda Bellos and the comedian came across really well, that student was unwatchable nearly and Paris is fucking vile.

I am new to all this stuff but for goodness sake - I feel women don't have a chance.

Paris was just awful and spiteful and attacking the comedian.

Also please tell me what the proof is behind the suicide statistic....

^^ I saw the one with Trevor Phillips- my hero! - so assume this is a different documentary?

There was a doc on C4 with Sir Trevor Phillips a while ago about political correctness. It was quite good. And Paris was similarly dismissive and awful.

Paris always comes across badly. I don't think Paris perceives that.

I watched Paris last night and asked myself have i ever heard a women defending rape jokes?

A classic case of female appropriation. Well Paris clearly has a lot more research to do. I'll be damned before I take lessons from someone who clearly thinks they know more about being female than I do by virtue of gender reassignment.

There's a place for us all, it's some of the more vocal TS' that seem to be turning it into a competition.

Utterly depressing and intellectually flaccid discussion. So often on social media I see transwomen being more vicious and misogynist towards other women than anyone else. Talk about a straw man argument. And why wasn't Linda Bellos in the studio?

Hi I'm new here and have been reading the Feminism chats for a few weeks and have found true critical thought from you all. I watched Paris last night and asked myself have i ever heard a women defending rape jokes? The ladies in my life would not question a women who signed a petition to stop rape jokes. I have daughters and i was just so angry i had to put the kettle on, sugar at 10.50pm is a sleepless night.

Loved it when the university representative said: "with knobs on"

That was good, at least this issue is starting to be addressed.

seriously, if people are so mentally fragile then maybe they shouldn't be at university at all.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b099wykn/newsnight-17102017

The first piece

Unfortunately I missed the very beginning where Bellos was speaking. Anyone got the time to give me the gist?

I too thought the comedienne was astute and spot on. The boy student was just giving airy fairy platitudes.

Paris was shouty but not very credible.

The tide is turning. I do believe that. For all the students and TRAs watching for some validation there was Linda Bellos talking straightforward truth.