Can Having Genital Preferences for Dating Mean You’re Anti-Trans?

Yes I have. Found it when I first googled the cotton ceiling a couple of years ago. It's quite something, isn't it?

Has anyone read this blog about the 'cotton ceiling' by a transwoman (who still has a penis) complaining that cis-lesbians don't want to have sex with them?

And in the very same blog post says that they are most attracted to cis-women: "I like and/or have dated, men, women, tranwomen, transmen, lesbians, bisexuals, and other pansexuals. Cis women always seem to come out on the top of the heap though. The look and feel of their bodies is just plain magical."

Well, yes. That is presumably why lesbians are lesbians and want to sleep with actual biological women rather than transwomen...

"Cis gender lesbians do…not…want…us. [...] They resist the penis. The penis to them is the Devil. Anything having to do with penises, they unequivocally oppose, regardless of whether it is exclusionary or irrational."

So somehow it's OK for this particular transwoman to prefer female-bodied people, but totally prejudiced for lesbians to prefer female-bodied people.

I wish I could believe this blog post was satire, but it really isn't.

You're right jack. It's a subtle difference. It's not about genitals, it's about the fact that they're men.

There's no such thing as sexual or genital preferences, there is sexual orientation.

Twisting words and meanings is part of brainwashing and gaslighting.

Amongst the worst hot takes I've seen are the ones saying "those lesbians who say they don't want penis better not be using dildos!!!!"

YY. That argument is also used against women who object to the creation of female bodied robots as a rape roleplay object men can indulge their hatred of women with. Misogynists gotta misogyny.

Owen Jones must be a trabsphobe with his same sex attraction

No thats entirely different. Its fine for gay men to be gay men. Its only lesbians that there is a problem with. As Owen pointed out himself by calling lesbians transphobic for refusing to suck dick, then going on to say how vile and homophobic it was for anyone to suggest he partakes in a bit of cunnilingus

Owen Jones must be a trabsphobe with his same sex attraction

Being a transwoman is characterised by either misogyny, delusion, or hating your own body.

And now, lately, a spectacularly arrogant entitlement to sex.

Them trying to claim that it's transphobia is really missing the mark.

And it must be unbelievably counter-productive. The more they force the issue the quicker their dating pool vanishes.

That's exactly it, OneFlew. Amazingly enough, i don't find entitlement (good MN word, that), misogyny and homophobia all that sexy, even in someone whose genitals don't actively put me off.

Well I'm bisexual and I still don't want to sleep with any transwoman. Bizarrely I wouldn't have an issue with a pre-op transman and I think it's because they don't have the same level of entitlement that tends to exude from the pores of most transwomen - you just know it wouldn't be a fun mutually enjoyable experience.

Amongst the worst hot takes I've seen are the ones saying "those lesbians who say they don't want penis better not be using dildos!!!!"

Because if you have allowed any object to penetrate you, ever, you are now apparently obliged to let all objects penetrate you.

My experience of sleeping with a woman is utterly different from that of sleeping with men, and it's not just about vulvas. It's the whole experience of the female body. A male body is not simply differentiated from a female body by virtue of a penis and boobs. It's a totally different sensory experience.

Yes. I've seen that argued as wrong because if someone says they are a woman then their male anatomy and body is a woman's, and always has been biologically a woman's, just in a less usual form ( yes, it is that contorted). Essentially you have just confronted them with a reality they find hurtful and 'erasing' (ie it messes with what they think, feel and how they see themselves) which increases their dysphoria so is 'literal violence' (this means people commit suicide through feeling like this) and so you are evil, violent, and a terf, and rather than have to process things like reality, other views or their own issues, the blame and rage about it can be directed at you. (Please see t shirts saying kill a terf, rape a terf, burn in a fire).

This is apparently all OK by most MPs.

Do google the cotton ceiling for your partner. if you haven't run across this yet, this is a simile for lesbians refusing sex with biologically male self identified woman as being a glass ceiling of acceptance as women, with the cotton part referencing lesbians' knickers. There have actually been seminars held by reputable bodies for transwomen to 'problem solve' and work on how to break through the cotton ceiling.

In other words, how to get lesbians to just shut up and get their knickers off.

And in 99.999999% of cases, if a woman wants a penis- she wants it attached to a man

Actually it's the trans-ideology I can thank for making me realise quite how 'penis centric sex' is considered the only way.

I was watching a video of a woman who went round asking men when was the last time they had sex. They answered, various answers. She asked whether the woman had had an orgasm. Almost to a man, the answers were I think so, I'm not sure, um maybe, or just plain no.

She then asked, in that case, how did they know when the sex was over. Again, to a man, they said after I had an orgasm.

And yes, the outraged whining that if a lesbian uses a dildo, then she should be fine with a penis. The absolute blind incomprehension that sex may not be PIV, is staggering.

Particularly in light of the fact that a woman's orgasm is centred on her clitoris. Which, is generally, a hit and miss affair during PIV.

Come to think of it, even the word foreplay reflects it, as though pleasing a woman is merely a warmup for the main event.

So much of this stems from a male view of women's sexuality as being the receiver, the object of sex, not the doer, the subject. The classic "man fucks woman" - subject fucks object. It's the same outrage from straight men - "you let him fuck you, why can't I?" as TIM "lesbians" - "you use a dildo, which is the same as a dick".

There was a twitter storm a while ago when a TIM was enraged at a lesbian porn performer for calling herself a gold star lesbian who, when asked, said she would not have sex with any TIM. Her response was similar to Lightroom and she also said she had no desire to participate in the orgasm of a male bodied person.

It's the same male view of women's sexuality that makes someone like Owen Jones tell women they are bigots for not recognising TIMs as women (in the specific context of discussions about pressure being put on lesbians) but take the highest of umbrage when asked when he last performed cunnilingus on a transman.

Thanks, Datun.

Lightroom

That was Magdelen Berns. A lesbian YouTuber who analyses and deconstructs the trans-ideology. Fantastically incisive. The Edinburgh University gay society through her out.

She frequently addresses Riley J Denises YouTube videos.

We had a parent on here a while back whose daughter came out as a lesbian. She was ostracised in her school, by her peers, for saying she wouldn't sleep with a transwoman. She was vilified online, victimised and bullied.

It's incredibly common. Googling words like lesbian erasure will do it.

Gendertrender is a particularly well researched blog. Hosted by a lesbian, she is furious at the erasure of homosexuality by the trans-ideology. She takes it down, relentlessly.

ArcheryAnnie

Absolutely. And does that correlate with gender dysphoria? You're often hearing how they wouldn't want to have PIV anyway, because it's triggering.

That's what the whole term transgenderism is a minefield. There are no set opinions, attitudes, or behaviour.

But what if you just like penises/vaginas? If you are not attracted to women with vaginas but would date one with a penis are you still cussexist? The whole thing is just ridiculous. Not being attracted to women doesn't make me a misogynist so why do I have to accept a man without a penis? A penis is pretty essential to the kind of sex I like to have (not a fan or oral at all). So what?

I'm a lesbian. I was closeted and married to a man for many years, because I was too terrified to come out in my late teens. I'm now in a relationship with a really lovely woman, and this 'genital preference' shit makes me furious. It's utterly regressive and fundamentally homophobic. I don't "prefer" vulvas. I am attracted to biologically female women raised as women. It's not a "preference", FFS. Sexual attraction is particular and selective and complicated. It's not about mainly drinking lattes and not being prepared to try an Earl Grey. This 'preference' rhetoric is like asking someone to stop preferring to be tall.

My experience of sleeping with a woman is utterly different from that of sleeping with men, and it's not just about vulvas. It's the whole experience of the female body. A male body is not simply differentiated from a female body by virtue of a penis and boobs. It's a totally different sensory experience. Also, I love being with a woman who grew up with all the social conditioning, pressures and gender crap, because she gets it and I don't have to explain.

FWIW, are we hearing the same 'genital preference' shit from trans men? Are there trans men activists insisting that straight women or gay men get their head round the lack of penis and learn to love vulva? Or is it, perhaps, just those who have grown up with male privilege who are putting lesbians in their place?

My DP is utterly baffled by the idea that it's transphobic to not want to have sex with someone with a dick and wonders where I'm getting this information from - she's asking if it's just extremists on the internet. Did I imagine it, or was a lesbian recently expelled from a uni LGBT society for 'transphobia' because she said she wouldn't have sex with someone with a dick?

I'd imagine some people will be looking at this thread and struggling to get their heads around things that just don't seem to make sense.

The most useful thing I like to keep in mind is that there are different kinds of trans people. I think there are three main groups:

1. transsexuals who would like to have a surgical transition at some point (classic trans);

2. men rebranded from being "transvestites" (fetish trans); and

3. young people who are struggling with their identities (young confused trans).

4. tend to just want to get on with their lives and aren't mad keen on drawing attention to themselves. 2) have some distinctly dodgy people who are motivated, perhaps for sexual reasons, to remove boundaries that women sensibly want in place. 3) provide recruits for 2) in pulling down boundaries and also provide a shield to hide behind that the nasty transphobes are seeking to hurt vulnerable teenagers.

I read an account from a transwoman who was infuriated and triggered because a bisexual woman had in fact slept with them. This transwoman had the suspicion that the bisexual female was sleeping with them in the 'I'm attracted to men side' of her sexuality, rather than the attracted to women side.

Datun, I read a blogpost from Avery Edison, where she was hurt at the terrible, terrible transphobia of a woman she'd met in a gay bar, who knew she was trans, went home with her and they had great sex - but this woman's crime was not to want PIV. Which made Avery sad, because Avery's penis is not like a man's penis.

Which makes me furious just typing it out. Nobody, whether trans or not, has any right to any particular sex act. And if they push for it, knowing the other person has said "no" - well, there's a name for that.

tl;dr nothing women can do or say will ever be enough, until they have capitulated to every demand and surrendered every right to say no.

I think anyone who describes lesbianism or homosexuality as a "genital preference" is a raging homophobe.

(By which I mean that Everyday Sexism are raging homophobes - which we already knew - not you, OP.)

nauticant

Totally. What makes me laugh (in a hollow, unfunny way), is they think women haven't seen this sort of behaviour since forever.

They think they've got a new take on it, another way of approaching it, that this entitlement to sex isn't something that women have been batting away all their lives.

They don't realise how stultifying ordinary and predictable they are.

What they're actually saying is you are allowed to not fancy someone but when it comes to me, then your right to choose disappears.

That doesn't sound like a woman speaking. It doesn't sound like a decent man speaking either. It sounds like a rapey man.