Can Having Genital Preferences for Dating Mean You’re Anti-Trans?

Let us know how he gets on Blanchefleur! If he's at all tentative, he'll probably get some "kindly" condescending posts aiming to re-educate him.

I think nobody says anything to my husband because he is very, well, masculine about it. Like a bull in a china shop really...

I am REALLY curious to see how his friends (who include at least one TIM) will react!

Frankly, it’s often the reaction one gets which makes one question further. Because the ideology does not stand up.

As soon as someone starts to argue in favour of it, they are all over the place.

Even in quite courteous exchanges, invariably, eventually it just comes down to well you shouldn’t be mean, it’s no skin off your nose.

There IS no rational argument for pretending sex doesn’t exist. Unless you have a very good reason why you want it to not exist. And the only question is what is that reason?

Is there a male equivalent term for TERF? I’ve seen “punch a terf” etc, and I can’t help but think TRAs would be less likely to spout this shit towards a man.

My DH is a very vocal and politically active leftist who mixes in similar circles, just like your DH LangCleg. However, up until now, my DH had totally swallowed the Kool-Aid, and used to mutter comments about 'being on the right side of history', equating trans demands with gay rights, and doing an awful lot of apartheid-related straw-manning.

TBH, I think he hadn't questioned it at all and just accepted that this was the 'right' opinion to have. He is totally bemused by the fact that I (also left-wing) and his mother (staunch Tory) are both in agreement for once (!). Even our 14 year old son has been gender-critical from the start, and has helpfully pointed out to him that 'Dad, if you have a willy, you're a bloke' .

Anyway...thanks to recommendations on here, I put 'Delusions of Gender' by Cordelia Fine on my Christmas list, and I know he has bought it. This morning, I noticed that he had posted his first ever gender-critical (albeit carefully worded as a question) Facebook post! So far, no responses. I am REALLY curious to see how his friends (who include at least one TIM) will react!

Mrs Terry Pratchett

That is spot on - all female sexual preferences including being a lesbian are seen as for the titillation of men)

(Runs to get smelling salts)

LangCleg

Fucking unbelievable. It’s just pure misogyny.

I actually think my brain is now wired to light up like a Christmas tree at the smallest, most minuscule, hint of a barely perceptible whiff of misogyny.

It’s like a superhero power.

But when any man does, strangely, the backlash is fairly lukewarm, if any.

My husband is voluble about this and about as tactful as an erupting volcano. Never gets a teeny tiny word of comeback. And he's also pro-Corbyn and leftist, so he interacts with plenty of people who'd be straight down the throat of any woman who ventured far, far less than he does.

Decent, nice men wouldn't dream of violating women's boundaries, intimidating them or making feel uncomfortable. So what are you left with?

Thank you. Perfect summary of the situation.

Is there a male equivalent term for TERF? I’ve seen “punch a terf” etc, and I can’t help but think TRAs would be less likely to spout this shit towards a man.

If you ask this question you will be told that yes, of course a man can be a terf. If he acts like a terf.

But when any man does, strangely, the backlash is fairly lukewarm, if any.

They know they can’t bully other men in the same way. They know that bullying man doesn’t give them the same frisson. They don’t want anything from men so they’re a bit meh if men don’t like it.

Sorry to all the straight sisters for whom this is too much info.

I have been musing today about smell. DH smells male. This stuff is primal and chemical. I'm allowed to prefer that. Because I'm straight I'm allowed to prefer men. And therefore penises (penii?).

But lesbians aren't allowed to prefer vaginae (vaginas? fuck knows). They never were. Men always sexualized and fetishised lesbians. They could 'turn' them. They made porn all about them. They wanted to convert them, sometimes violently. This just seems an extension of that. A way of forcing lesbians to entertain male fantasies.

Is there a male equivalent term for TERF? I’ve seen “punch a terf” etc, and I can’t help but think TRAs would be less likely to spout this shit towards a man.

Of course they wouldn't - they know men are the source of danger to TIMs, not women. They know straight men don't want to sleep with TIMs. They have to go after the women. I've even seen a tweet saying straight women should ask their partners if they would date a TIM and if the man says no, the woman should leave him! You couldn't make it up.

So are genitals now a social construction?
I’m a woman and I like sex with men (well, in truth man in singular).

Other people can do whatever they like in the privacy of their own homes. They can dress as they like. They can pretend to be the opposite sex (or is that gender?) as much as they like. It’s all just silly and I’m not sure reflects real life.

However, women have a right to know whether they are being seduced by a man or another woman. They have a right to say they are heterosexual and don’t recognise anything but birth sex. It’s not discrimination it’s common sense.

they only just really thought about that they would realize it and maybe find out they like cock after all?

It's just newspeak bollocks isn't it? It makes no sense. If this were true there'd be no straight or bisexual women. But of course people like RD don't really give a shit about women unless they think they can get access to their fannies.

According to Riley Dennis' line of thinking, as a bi person I should be open to having sex with everyone. But of course I'm not because...drumroll...sexual attraction, desire and consent is about more than agreeing to insert part A into part B. Only someone socialised as male could spout such entitled crap.

have a vagina fetish

Isn't that exactly what Riley Dennis is blabbering on about? How our cis-centric society has brought up men and lesbians fetishizing vaginas and if they only just really thought about that they would realize it and maybe find out they like cock after all?

All it means is, she is deeply jealous of not having a vagina. You talking about yours hurts her so much, that sorry you can't do it or you are a transphobe.

Exactly @pigsknickers - whoever you are, there's nothing less attractive than jumping up and down shouting 'you have to have sex with me or you're a bigot'

Is there a male equivalent term for TERF? I’ve seen “punch a terf” etc, and I can’t help but think TRAs would be less likely to spout this shit towards a man.

Unfair, really, as plenty of men don’t want to sleep with trans people either.

It’s the way some Transfolk twist this to how genitals have nothing to do with attraction. A man meets an attractive passing TW - he likes them, likes their personality, finds them hot, gets turned on kissing them - this proves you can be attracted to a transwoman - to gender - not to someones birth sex. To then go off them just because they have a penis or even not have a penis - that where you’re transphobic - have a vagina fetish etc. No thought that a man was only attracted in the first place as they had been tricked into thinking the TW was a biological woman - that that expectation makes all the difference. That they think they can actually push this thinking is just astonishing.

Good point knit and I didn't mean to imply that someone has to be conventionally masculine or feminine-presenting to be attractive. But shouting "you're a bigot if you don't want to have sex with me" is unlikely to ever get the desired results.

I'm bi - am I a vagina fetishist or not? Am I only a vagina fetishist if I'm currently in the act of having sex with a person who's got one? I feel Excluded which as we all know is Actual Violence

Seriously, in my lifetime I have fancied all sorts of people with all sorts of identities and gender presentations and downstairs configurations and the thing they all had in common was that they weren't entitled, rapey arseholes who demanded I fuck them to make them feel good about themselves. Weird that

Quick wave to all the fellow vagina-fetishists! Fannies are fun, clits are cute! They do such interesting things, feel and smell and taste nice, fun all round! smile

Frankly, and in the glorious spirit of tmi, I am fairly well acquainted my own particular heterosexual fanjo. And, since it’s attached to me, I agree 100% that the XX part of the entire issue is crucial.

The relationship between and my bits is what makes my bits female.

SomeDyke

Crying at the thought of gay dinos vogueing or admiring power tools 😂

Noah wouldn't let the gay dinos come on the Ark because they refused to come in two-by-two male and female, and instead stayed outside voguing to 'it's raining men'

What a glorious mental image in an otherwise thoroughly depressing thread...

I too used to be a thoroughly warm and fluffy intersectional libfem type until I had a look behind the 'terfs are nasty' curtain and realised that a) germaine greer was the canary for this back in the 70s, writing about April Ashley and b) gaslighting, misogynistic, virtue signalling, groupthinking dystopia is about to become LAW. Since then I've not shut up about it, in a large part thanks to this amazing consciousness-raising community of sisters.

"while basically doing what straight people have been doing since the dinosaurs conked out."
Which seems to suggest yet another hypothesis for the demise of the dinos, they turned gay, hence stopped having baby dinos, whilst the furry little mammals were all staunchly hetero and carried on bonking and breeding as the ash from the meteor impact settled all around them.........
See, could be an alternative/additional theory for the young-earthers, Noah wouldn't let the gay dinos come on the Ark because they refused to come in two-by-two male and female, and instead stayed outside voguing to 'it's raining men'. The dyke-dinos, obviously, got distracted admiring Noahs discarded hand-powered tools (have you seen this adze mate! It's a beaut, what nobhead left it lying out here in the rain!...........).

(Damn, they're out of rainbow triceratops on ebay, thought I'd just found another Xmas prezzie for a moment! I WANT one!)

Funnily enough, it was being berated (not me personally, in a general social media way) by a trans man I know about genital preferences that first made me have a bit of another think about trans ideology. Previously I had been a massive trans ally and was totally comfortable with the "born in the wrong body" concept, but I realised that this person was basically calling me a massive bigot for ruling them out as sexual partner. I'm talking about a trans man who has (still, as far as I'm aware) made no physical or hormonal modifications at all, and just looks like a moderately pretty, unfeminine woman. And even if they'd gone the full hog with hormones, surgery, whatever, I still would never have even asked myself if I fancied them, if that makes sense. In the same way that I don't consider whether I fancy women, or men who are far older or younger than me.

The point of all that was that I've often read on here that this sort of pressure only comes from transwomen towards lesbians, and that's not been my experience. In fact I've known a handful of trans men who are quick to get aggressive and shout "transphobia" when their masculinity isn't being confirmed.

EF had previously threatened to close down. Despite my best hopes that this stain on the internet would be gone, alas, it is still with us, along with a new "membership program" so that you can access the website without ads...

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genderalities obvs