The UK is officially an intolerant hellhole for transwomen

Eresh is it not possible that someone is questioning their identity far before they access social media? Perhaps social media is actually helping people find communities and grow to accept their identity. That's all I've ever experienced on social media, be that Tumblr, twitter or youtube, but as mentioned I'm not 13 or 14 so don't really know how young teens use social media at present, or what school is like for them.

straight is someone who is entirely heterosexual and heteroromantic.

No one apart from people on Tumblr thinks of "straight" in that way. To the vast majority of people it means someone who is heterosexual, meaning only attracted to the opposite sex. Like many of your friends.

I'd also like to know the difference between romantic feelings towards somebody, and plain old loving feelings towards somebody, if they are both devoid of any kind of sexual attraction.

Sexual orientation is it based on same sex or opposite sex attraction. It's not based on loving feelings towards a certain sex.

What's heteroromantic? How does "demisexual" diverge from that?

Lass Ok, I will admit I am totally confused by your post (my brain is a bit zombified atm) but what I mean by straight is someone who is entirely heterosexual and heteroromantic.

So the friends I referenced in that post (who I lived with last year) are not straight, even if they end up in a relationship with someone of a different sex to themselves (because they are bi, ace, and aro ace).

Or indeed it is not clear why someone can't be in one of your special categories and also be heterosexual- or straight.

"Straight" seems to be your catch-all phrase for people not like you and your friends.

Social media quite clearly does cause young people to become confused about their identity. I don't care if you find it patronising.

loops

It's not a point of view! It's not opinion that can be swayed either way by good rhetoric.

Unless we have categories, that are called sex categories, but are not based on sex, but on gender, a transwoman, cannot be a woman.

hunged That's fair, I wasn't directing it at you, more at the idea that Tumblr/social media is going to cause young people to become confused about their identity (which is hella patronising) rather than just giving them a space in which to explore the feelings they already have.

The trans women are women thing is complicated, because you're right there isn't any 'evidence', but some people don't really care lol if someone says they're a woman that's good enough for me personally. I can also see why it isn't for other people, and they are free to campaign for their POV.

And what does "straight" mean Loop other than the opposite of homosexual?

I am very happy to take on board the point that "straight" being the antonym of homosexual is problematic as in a non- sexual sense the antonym of straight is crooked.

However from your myriad of special categories it is not clear why someone can't be in one of your special categories and also not be heterosexual.

Therefore "straight" as you are using seems to be nothing more than a way of describing people, whether heterosexual or homosexual, who aren't as complex as you.

I mean, when you can access all the possible ideologies that exist in society, it's not really perpetuating any of them. You choose what you engage with, you're not being brainwashed into believing stuff, if you seek it out you know about it already. Like, personally I don't think nazis and white supremacists need to exist on social media, but they do, and people can choose to engage with them.

I choose to follow queer content, I also choose to follow fandom content relevant to my interests. I don't follow 'discourse' for the most part, and if I see it I ignore it or block it, because I like my tumblr to be a place where I can chill out lol I control what I see and who I follow.

But discrimination in legal terms is much harder to codify. And doing so may affect other people who are more needful of legal protection, like when trans needs are prioritised over women's.

I think the current tension in the so called radfem vs. transwoman debate (ugh ugh ugh), is that intersectionality has positioned everyone who is oppressed under patriarchy to fight amongst themselves for provision, which has created the oppression hierarchy. A hierarchy has also emerged in the ways that people are protected and categorised - innate feelings and fundamental essence/identity for transpeople over biology for women as a sex class.

Loops, I don't think for an instance that tumblr made you asexual - I said variation, preference and orientation has always existed outside of heterosexuality. I am gender critical, I would be concerned if someone who had a similar outlook to me only gathered their source of gender critical theory was from a social media platform that any one can contribute to.

I have been in academic settings where students have used these sources as establishing "truth" and fact. I have been at feminist discussions where "trans women are women" has been shouted over the speaker. What are the sources for that claim? Look on twitter to see the discussion being shut down because SCIENCE. I haven't seen any credible "science" sources - i've seen thought pieces on the aforementioned places that position gender theory and thin philosophy as biology - that's when it becomes a harmful ideology.

this idea that Tumblr is perpetuating harmful ideologies or whatever is completely nonsensical, it's actually a fairly open minded place (too open minded sometimes)

I think you just disproved your argument within the same sentence.

How is it nonsensical that Tumblr is perpetuating harmful ideologies then? I don't expect you to agree with me what constitutes a harmful ideology.

eresh being straight isn't boring? It's just not something I am, I also have a lot of friends who aren't straight, and a lot who are, if they're boring it's cause they're boring not because they're straight or not.

Tumblr didn't make me asexual, it just introduced me to a word to describe my experience. Tumblr is also not the same for everyone, your experience on the site is hugely dependent on what you choose to engage with, and that could be self-ID stuff, queer stuff, fandom stuff, cats. There are even gender-critical people, and gate-keeping LGB people on there lol so this idea that Tumblr is perpetuating harmful ideologies or whatever is completely nonsensical, it's actually a fairly open minded place (too open minded sometimes)

Of course people can identify, have preferences, describe their orientation in whichever way they want, but with the move for these identities to become protected classes through collective experience of oppression is ridiculous.

Yes, exactly.

How is requiring romantic attraction before sexual expression or a lack of sexual orientation a material reality that legislation can define?

That's why this way of looking at the world, although occasionally amusing, is so problematic. No one should be abused for who they are or how they choose to present themselves to the world. But discrimination in legal terms is much harder to codify. And doing so may affect other people who are more needful of legal protection, like when trans needs are prioritised over women's.

Lass my mother was a bit disappointed that none of her four children turned out to be gay. She was quite keen to be absolutely fine with it. And that was at the dawn of time for goodness sake.

No young people get disowned by their families for telling their parents they only want to have sex with their opposite sex partner

Although I do recall my son aged around 15 telling me it was going to be a terrible disappointment to me but he wasn't gay (it was a joke obviously- it was just that our friends did include a disproportionately large number of charming, successful, and lovely gay men)

I promise none of us are 'straight'

No of course not. How totally awful that would be. How boring.

I sooo cannot wait to see what the Generation born 2000- 2010 will have to teach loops generation about sexuality. It's going to be fucking hilarious

Me neither!

A few years ago I read about a British woman and her child/ren granted asylum in Sweden because of a UK court order regarding residency/contact. I can't find any link now though so maybe I dreamed it.

I've really enjoyed reading through this thread. I wanted to post earlier but had to head out, hopefully my comments are a worthwhile contribution still.

I agree with loops, that people have always existed with preferences and orientations outside of heterosexuality - but the current wave of categorisation is entirely linked to today's framework of (post-structuralist) queer theory. But that doesn't mean that because there has always been variation to human sexuality and experience that the current categorisation and subcategorisation is therefore valid, because people that subscribe to these definitions are "valid" in themselves. In my academic discipline, queer theory is not the 'way of knowing' - I might position my work against it, but it's not the lens that I view my research through.

I think that this is essentially an epistemological debate. I see a problem at the moment with many young people (albeit I am 28 myself), obtaining their understanding about themselves from thought catalog, tumblr and Riley J Dennis. I think these sources are important to the discussion and understanding as young people have always assembled under peer-led categories. Of course people can identify, have preferences, describe their orientation in whichever way they want, but with the move for these identities to become protected classes through collective experience of oppression is ridiculous.

How is requiring romantic attraction before sexual expression or a lack of sexual orientation a material reality that legislation can define? Sexual orientation is protected under the Equality Act, albeit legislation that is difficult to enforce and almost always retrospectively applied. Apart from common courtesy to my fellow humans, can legally requiring respect and validation be granted to groups that are defined in isolation through one a particular type of scholarship? I am a feminist and approach my academic research through a feminist lens - but I engage with non-feminist scholarship (the vast majority), non-feminist colleagues, my Mum isn't a feminist, my government isn't feminist. Feminist theory is a way to analyse my material reality as an adult female in society - not the other way round, which is how queer identity seems to operate.

I also wouldn't put you in a group, because it's not anyone else's place to decide how people should identify

If anyone can identify as anything then the groups have no meaning. If I said "I'm a communist but I believe in private property" or "I'm an ararchist but I believe we should have more state security surveillance". The thing with categorisations is that they have to mean something or there's no point in them.

In relation to oppression, no-one gets beaten up for not holding hands with their partner in the street. No young people get disowned by their families for telling their parents they only want to have sex with their opposite sex partner after they have formed a deep emotional connection with them.

I'm just so happy I was starting sex in the 90s. Magazines were all about female pleasure, one night stands were fine, things now considered "vanilla" were adventurous (like women on top ), men were so pleased to encounter a vagina they didnt care if it came accompanied with a bush. There was a bit of "slut shaming" but not much. Mostly it was just a lot of fun.
It all seems a bit intense and navel-gazey now......

the 7 year olds less so obviously. I worked with 7 year olds though, they're very intelligent and inclusive Most of them also believe in Santa and the tooth fairy, so I wouldn't hold much store by them being inclusive. 😄

Back in my youth there were plenty of people having lots of sex with lots of people, but actually most people weren't, most people were forming emotional relationships and then deciding whether to have sex with them or not. Much like the popular impression that all university students all got drunk every night and didn't get out of bed until Countdown came on, when in fact most students went to lectures every day and went to bed sober every night.