The UK is officially an intolerant hellhole for transwomen

They are desperate for migration? Any more info?

I honestly don't get your "demisexual" can't also be "heterosexual" comment. As I understood it, "demisexual" and "greysexual" applies to where you are on the spectrum of "shag anyone with a pulse" to "very very picky" (where for me being picky is actually a positive thing - it shows you have good boundaries in place). Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual applies to the biological sex you are attracted to (and yes, it is biological sex, because gender is an oppressive social construct, and a necessary but not sufficient part of sexual attraction towards someone is them having the right genitals, and there is no such thing as a lady penis, however much the likes of Riley Dennis want to prop up rape culture by guilt-tripping lesbians into having sex with them). "Asexual" strikes me as different again - it's about libido (one can be "demisexual" and have a high libido with one's chosen partner; conversely I've met people with multiple partners who are doing it not out of desire but because some event has left them so traumatised that they can't see sex as anything other than sexual currency to make people like them.)

So it's perfectly possible to be demisexual (want some sort of emotional connection to someone's personality) before wanting to shag them, and also want them to have a particular type of genitals, making you hetero/homsexual, and have a very high libido once you've met that person.

Whenever these conversations come up on here, I'm reminded of a great spoof someone wrote on here about "coming out to your mum as demisexual"... "Yes mum, I know you were looking forward to supporting me through all those rights of passage like getting a bumper pack of condoms, first visit to the STD clinic, and I know how gregarious you are, and you were looking forward to making small talk to a different young man every Saturday and Sunday morning when I brought him downstairs in the morning. But, I'm afraid it's not going to be like that. You see (lip wobble) I'll be taking it slowly, getting to know one bloke, then bringing him home - just that one person, not a whole string of them - every weekend..."

Though I do see in a sense why the current generation has had to invent these labels for what's actual a fairly standard and traditional attitude towards sex. Like young women identifying as trans in vast numbers, it's actually a reaction to our pornified society which now defines "normal" sex as multiple partners, multiple orifices (often at the same time), constantly up to shag any man with a pulse who presents himself. Porn culture has such a stranglehold (sadly often quite literally) on dating behaviour and wider culture that one has to have an "excuse" - "I'm demisexual", "I'm a transman" - to gain "permission" to opt out of pornified behaviour.

And of course the tragic thing is it doesn't work - cf the thread running at the moment about the transman raped by a man who wasn't buying into the myth that this was really a man rather than just another female body to be raped. Not only does it not work, but it strips us of the language to talk about men and women, male and female socialisation, the culturally conditioned power imbalance between the sexes, and the actual root of the problem, which is male violence. We're left just putting sticking plasters over the symptoms.

Spinsters may be asexual, but they also may not be, asexuality is not a requisite for spinsterhood

Oh the joy. You can write all this stuff about oppressed these groups are but still use the word "spinster".

Datun no, it has nothing to do with wanting to have sex, it's about the feeling of being sexually attracted to someone.

You can experience sexual attraction without wanting to actually have sex, and you can want to have sex without being sexually attracted to that person. The amount you desire sex is your libido, rather than your attraction.

Demisexual people have no sexual attraction to people unless they are emotionally connected to them, it can be the same person, and one day they are sexually attracted.

I find them liberating but I know a lot of older people feel the exact opposite.

I can sort of understand this. But it's only, in my opinion, because the demand that those labels are respected. I agree, there is no reason why they shouldn't be, but because it appears so conditional on that, I worry about the fragility involved when they are not respected.

No-one is told that they are broken, invalid etc for being demisexual because it is a TOTALLY NORMAL THING. Christ alive.

I'm 26, and I'm asexual, I have friends who are also in their 20s who are ace and aro...I promise none of us are 'straight'

I think that is very telling. "None of us are n "straight". Which , I'm assuming means not only are none of us boring heterosexual "straights" but boring gay men and lesbians "straights".

that you are self-absorbed I'm self- absorbed. I don't consider I'm being oppressed if it is occasionally pointed out to me.

That made me laugh out loud.

It's true, though. It's very difficult to get over the current generation's obsession with not being criticised.

sleighbell that's obviously not true it doesn't matter how confident or self-assured you are, being told over and over and over again that you're wrong/broken/invalid/stupid is going to have an effect on your mental health, especially if you're a teenager who is still figuring stuff out.

Datun true, but asexual does not equal celibate (either by choice or not). If you experience sexual attraction, you're not asexual. If you experience sexual attraction but don't want to have sex, or you're not sexually attracted to your partner but are to other people, you're not asexual. Spinsters may be asexual, but they also may not be, asexuality is not a requisite for spinsterhood.

It is interesting though, that young people have embraced labels, I find them liberating but I know a lot of older people feel the exact opposite.

I've just googled demisexual. So you don't want to have sex with someone unless you're emotionally involved with them? I might be horribly old-fashioned here, but isn't that most girls?

Saying that, being told your identity is invalid
If you are referring to posters here- no one has. Does any one in real life do that? And not caring/ being bored is a perfectly valid reaction- it is not invalidating your identity.

that you are self-absorbed I'm self- absorbed. I don't consider I'm being oppressed if it is occasionally pointed out to me.

if a teen wants to ID as asexual for a while, then change their mind, nobody is gonna care.

This is when my scepticism goes into overload. Loads, simply loads of people do not feel a rush of sexuality until they are well into their 20s or later. Or meet someone who happens to press the right configurations of buttons, whether physical, mental or emotional.

It's a completely normal part of sexual maturity.

If you were that sure in your own identity, someone telling you it was 'invalid' wouldn't bother you. the majority of the population are 'demisexual'

For many asexual people (and aro people) they are pretty old when they figure out there's a name for how they feel,

I don't understand that. There are many, many people who are asexual. It's nothing new. I don't understand how people can be unaware of it.

Same with aromantic.

I wonder if it's because sex as a part of society, is just beamed into peoples houses 24/7, due to social media, etc, leading everyone to believe that unless they're swinging off a chandelier in a thong and a rose between their teeth, they are horribly different.

Certainly, when I was growing up, lots of people were considered asexual. Spinsters and confirmed bachelors. (Although 'confirmed bachelor' became a euphemism for a closeted homosexual). Half my (large) extended family didn't date or marry. It was considered totally unremarkable.

Perhaps the 'labelling' is a backlash against our current, sexualised society. And might explain why older people think it's a bit daft. Because, to them, it's always been around, and never needed labelling.

sleigh I'm not demi, you'd have to ask someone who is how they experience oppression.

Saying that, being told your identity is invalid, that you are self-absorbed, or that someone is embarrassed for you...is pretty unpleasant. Also having people try to change your orientation, being raped to 'fix' you. These are all issues faced by a-spec people, which I think is pretty oppressive. Society telling you there's something wrong with you, that you need to be fixed, that you should have invasive testing to make sure you're not ill (because if you were healthy you'd want sex).

Sure, if I were to live in a country where gay people were murdered I might be ok (just on the ace part) but that doesn't mean there's no oppression in the UK. Gay people aren't routinely killed in the UK, that doesn't mean they don't face oppression...or if not 'oppression' then just a society not designed to accommodate them.

Also, like I said before, a-spec communities have existed much longer than tumblr, the only thing tumblr has done is expose teenagers to other options so they can ID earlier. It's not fixed though, if a teen wants to ID as asexual for a while, then change their mind, nobody is gonna care.

How exactly are demisexual people oppressed? 'I don't want to shag you unless I feel romantically attracted to you' is hardly a niche personality trait.

It's just a way for bored teenagers to play at being oppressed, and I feel a terrible mixture of embarrassment and pity when I hear anyone past the age of 16 referring to themselves as such.

I don't know Datun. I'm still not convinced much more needs to be said beyond fancies men/fancies women/ fancies both. Everything else is just an aspect of individual personality. It all just sounds so terribly self- obsessed.

Datun I mean, I've been assessed and don't have autism, and otherwise I'm quite good at social cues. It's more that were I to be in a 'relationship' it wouldn't look that different to some of my current friendships because there's no sex, and ideally never will be. For my aro friend there also wouldn't be any romantic feelings or actions, which further blurs the situation.

It's also...unintentional that we all are ace and all are friends, we didn't go looking for a group of people that all share a sexuality (and we're all slightly more or less ace than each other haha). It is nice to have that understanding, and nice that nobody had S.Os round having sex all the time.

I guess for us, if you didn't laugh you'd cry? Like, it is mega confusing and frustrating, so you take the piss out of it to feel less 'weird'. If I was more seriously dating (I want to but the difficulty of being ace and dating makes me anxious) I might be more upset by the whole thing.

For many asexual people (and aro people) they are pretty old when they figure out there's a name for how they feel, so they feel relief over finding a community, and realising they're not broken, so then it becomes less upsetting.

Ereshkigal

I'm a lttle sceptical too. But there is no doubt that these labels mean something to a lot of people. I want to find out more

loops

Does it have anything to do with autism? Your point about not being able to differentiate between friendship and dating, sounds like an inability to read social cues.

There have been asexual people around since forever. Probably a lot more than the current sex positive climate would have you believe. The whole 'lie back and think of England' cliche comes to mind.

Aromantic, also, sounds like something that many people would label themselves. Not everyone experiences a heady rush of emotion. Lots of peoples highly successful relationships have been based on shared interests and values.

What I find tricky is that you have a social circle which, coincidentally, includes so many people the same. And that it's funny? I'm not suggesting one can't take the piss out of others, I just don't understand the dynamic required for that over this particular issue? For instance , if I had no sexual feelings, I might find society's obsession over sex, a little distressing and difficult to understand. I'm not sure I'd think it was funny though. (I'm not criticising, because I have a rather inappropriate sense of humour myself, but I just can't see where the comedy lies).

Eresh I'm 26, and I'm asexual, I have friends who are also in their 20s who are ace and aro...I promise none of us are 'straight'. Ofc there is a world outside of tumblr, being asexual has always been around, and has been understood for decades, significantly longer than tumblr lol (but god, imagine a place where young people feel accepted and not broken, how awful).

I've never experienced gate-keeping at LGBT events like Pride, or at groups (thankfully). I see it on twitter, although for the most part nobody cares about me cause I am romantically attracted to women, so I 'pass' that test. I wouldn't gate-keep a bisexual in a straight relationship, so I wouldn't gate-keep an ace or aro person either.

Also, you don't have to have patience for it fortunately, you can just...get over it. Or not engage with people you don't believe exist, it just makes you look a bit silly though.

Sorry. I know other posters are engaging with you. I just have no patience for this utter utter ludicrous bullshit.

You're actually being quite rude.

Yes, probably. I hope it conveys the contempt I feel for the ideological belief system of these self obsessed completely unique individuals.

No one can say who can call themselves "queer"? No gatekeeping? Then it's meaningless. And many, not the minority you think, dislike the term and the idea that straight people have to be included. Are you in your teens? There is a world outside tumblr.

Datun I'm not aro...I don't think, but I do know that being ace/aro can hugely impact relationships that aren't 'dating' as well. When society tells you that friendships are different to relationships, and are less important than relationships, it's SO hard to figure out boundaries when you don't have an inner differentiation. Like, where is the line between friend and more-than-friend, when the line for most people is sexual or romantic feelings. So in that sense it's good to talk about it, so people in your life understand why sometimes you might get the lines wrong.

Also, when you don't experience it, the world being as 'sexual' as it is can be pretty confusing/funny, and that's sometimes nice to talk about with other people who get it :)

Aromantic for instance. I suppose it's useful to put a label upfront to let people know that although you might well have sex with them, you'll never fall in love. Despite it probably decreasing your dating pool.

It's the sort if thing that one might only find out a few months in and possibly get resentful over wasted investment.

What I don't understand is how it's a talking point.

But since it is, it is.

lass it precludes it the same way that a bisexual person in a relationship with someone of a different sex to themselves does not 'become heterosexual'. Demisexual people are still demisexual even in a relationship with someone of a different sex to themselves.

I guess you could say who cares about anyone else, and any orientation. I don't 'care' what orientation my friends are, but I care about them and if they want to tell me/talk about it then that's fine with me. It matters to them, it's important to them.

Also ace people (as an example) often still want relationships (even marriage, babies, romance) and there often aren't enough ace people who want those things to neatly pair off, so ace people end up in relationships with sexual people and then their asexuality becomes really important in setting boundaries and making it work.