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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Great blog from David Davis on changes to GRC

38 replies

TimbuktuTimbuktu · 09/10/2017 20:43

I just saw this shared on Facebook and thought it would be of interest here. I don't think it's been posted already.

www.david-davies.org.uk/news/transgender-rights-versus-womens-privacy

It's very well reasoned and would be great for directing other MPs towards.

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hackmum · 12/10/2017 12:19

Vince Cable has gone down in my estimation. Not that he was very high anyway, after the Royal Mail privatisation.

newtlover · 11/10/2017 22:44

agree that it's a good piece, but looking at the wiki link, it's more than just your average common or garden tory...

quencher · 10/10/2017 20:40

Wow! Endless applauses from me.

Miffer · 10/10/2017 20:18

As one of those lefties who participates a lot in internet activism (along with the real life variety) I can honestly say this doesn't come up that much. My circle are a mix of old school socialist and younger anarchist types (FYI I lean more to the latter politically). When trans is mentioned it is usually no more than a T on the end of LGBT.

Feminist issues tend to be around poverty, DV and health.

Bucketsandspoons · 10/10/2017 20:08

Baggy do you really think a Corbyn led government would see this differently? If anything Corbyn and co seem even more enthusiastically sucked in by it all.

Ereshkigal · 10/10/2017 20:08

I would remind Amy of Norman Lamb's words. But she'll probably give some Orwellian bollocks back.

Ereshkigal · 10/10/2017 20:07

Wow that Lib Dem response is utterly appalling. Maybe post it on twitter!

misscockerspaniel · 10/10/2017 18:53

This is what Norman Lamb (Lib Dem) is quoted as saying several months' ago on the subject of mixed-sex hospital wards: "Men and women should never have to share hospital wards, it's an affront to basic human dignity".

I don't think the Left are connecting the dots (yet).

DJBaggySmalls · 10/10/2017 16:04

The current govt are not left wing or liberal. Neither is the govt of Iran, where gay people are given the 'choice' to transition or face the death penalty.
I cant believe I have to keep making this point.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/10/2017 15:58

the party believe that people should live as they want and that includes self-identifying.

Send back what cocoa said 'one of the liberal tenets is freedom but that you should not do harm to others'

busyboysmum · 10/10/2017 14:41

Don't think the lib dems will be on board sadly - I have just received this from Vince Cable (apparently):

Thank you for your email.

As Liberal Democrats, Vince and the party believe that people should live as they want and that includes self-identifying.

Kind regards
Amy
Leader's Correspondence Team
8-10 Great George Street, London, SW1P 3AE

Quite an indepth reply to the points I had raised with them :)

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/10/2017 12:26

Well we need some nice liberal lefties on side as well then

The problem is most nice liberal lefties don't want to labelled transphobes, as that strips them of the nice liberal lefty label.

OlennasWimple · 10/10/2017 12:20

A stopped clock is right twice a day, and all that....

Thelilywhite · 10/10/2017 12:04

appreciate the comments about his other dubious views though but still...

Thelilywhite · 10/10/2017 12:03

Ive posted this on the resource thread as some have suggested up-thread it could be used as a basis for a letter to mps

busyboysmum · 10/10/2017 11:56

Well we need some nice liberal lefties on side as well then.

Surely some of them can think outside of the box and see the danger this poses to women.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/10/2017 11:37

I fucking hate that this ONE ISSUE puts us on the same side as scum like him

This is a huge issue. The majority of the people speaking out about this are right-wing / very Christian not groups I would usually align with! The problem with this is it does very much frame the debate as nice liberal lefties against right wing fundamentalists, which effectively shuts down anyone who might want to speak out.

busyboysmum · 10/10/2017 11:25

I think a few of us could do with supporting what he has said in his local paper comments as the trans people seem to have turned up in force to trash him.

WitchBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 10/10/2017 11:03

Blimey, a well put together piece from an unexpected place. Very well put though.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/10/2017 09:02

That would be really hard for anyone to argue against, surely.

I found a piece from his local paper touching on the issue

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/15442950.YOURMPPWRITESDaviddDaviesMPPforMonmouth/#comments-anchor

'He's a tory' is a sufficient argument for some.

nauticant · 10/10/2017 08:19

It is excellent. It keeps things simple, has a broad scope, and yet is nice and clear. However, following comments by others up-thread, do read up on David TC Davies before you decide how to use this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Davies_(Welsh_politician)#Political_views

CocoaIsGone · 10/10/2017 07:25

I think the problem with it coming from the Tories is that the TRAs are trading quite heavily on people’s desire to be liberal, open and diverse, but without understanding that one of the liberal tenets is freedom but that you should not do harm to others. The question of harm has been less well articulated for fear of being branded transphobic. The problem with it coming from Davis, is that his views may just be dismissed as conservative and retrograde, without engaging with the weight of his argument.

And to an extent, there is a conservative element to the idea that biological sex matters, if the person arguing it also believes that there are inherent hierarchies embedded in the sex roles of male/female. However, the sex roles are what we mean by gender, and the feminist view I think is that gender is a social construct, not that different sexes don’t exist and should not be protected.

So the fundamental premise, that different sexes exist and should have certain rights protected (to same sex space), aligns in conservative and feminist thought. It is going beyond that basic premise that viewpoints differ, because feminists would see sex as the basis of oppression, whereas conservatives would see it as a natural order. I think.

daisygirlmac · 10/10/2017 07:13

That's brilliant. Really concise and sensible. I've also sent it to my MP and asked for his thoughts on the issue.

IndominusRex · 10/10/2017 06:59

I've just sent this to my MP.

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