Maria Miller jumps the shark (again)

Good question Errol.

Send to whom, though? People who are engaged, one way or another on twitter and other social media?

Do we know who will be consulted and how?

".@AnneMilton would like us to let people know that anyone can response to the #gra consultation. @WomenEqualities will send details of how"

'In which case, get out from under the trans umbrella and get into feminism. '

Exactly!!!

Gender neutral passports. Its hard not to become a spluttering mess when you hear of stuff like this. Hard not to resort to wailing 'WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END??!!!' while tearing your hair out.

I consider myself 'non binary', not that I spend much time thinking about that term. I'm a woman who wears only flat shoes, has very short hair, drinks pints instead of spritzers and has many geeky tendencies. So I don't tick many of the boxes on the 'female stereotypes' checklist but guess what? I'm still a woman! Wouldn't most men and women come out as 'non binary' if you compared them to a checklist of all the stereotypes associated with their sex?!

Do we know who will be consulted and how?

.@jessphillips asks when #genderrecognitionact consultation will be launched. @NickGibbUK says soon. #equalityministers #GRA

twitter.com/Commonswomequ/status/918052441240883201

Tbh my main worry if I meet someone androgynous and can't tell, the 'worry' is mostly that I might put my foot in it by getting their sex wrong. Especially with kids, most of whom whatever they are dressed in or doing are not in the least confused about their sex IME - I'd be appalled if I accidentally called a 'tomboy' a boy, or a longhaired boy a girl, reinforcing stereotypes.

I wonder if it reflects the fact that women are socialised to have a rational wariness around men, and when someone's presentation is ambiguous, one's intuition doesn't know what to do.

I think it has more to do with size and attitude, I wouldn't be wary of a male that was smaller, weaker and meeker than me however they present but would be of a larger, stronger more aggressive female however they present.

Agghh, those kids, I just want to send them to their room

It's fascinating. I totally understand why they don't want to identify as sex or the other. Although, I should imagine, not everyone's motives are pure. Or indeed feminist.

I'd also bet my right arm that quite a lot of it is about sex and one's dating pool. Particularly with regards to the men. I'd also be interested to see a graph of the sexual orientation of non-binary people. I can't help thinking that the sexual orientation would be homosexual. But that could just be because I get mixed messages.

What I find utterly confounding is that here I am, a feminist, fully on board with dismantling gender. Wanting to see a world where people are not treated differently because of their sex. And yet, at exactly same time, if I am confronted by someone whose sex I can't determine, it worries me.

I've had to do some self analysis as to why that is. And I've come to the very lowering conclusion that it's because I don't know how to treat them. Argh.

It's never happened in real life. I'm assuming, that in real life, I would get a clue as to their sex pretty swiftly.

I wonder if it reflects the fact that women are socialised to have a rational wariness around men, and when someone's presentation is ambiguous, one's intuition doesn't know what to do.

And yes, I agree that bathrooms, etc, should still remain sex segregated. For all the usual reasons.

Yes it's quite striking. From the men, on which toilet do they use:
"whichever one I please"
"I don't like to use the male toilets at all, because I will be looked at and people.will think I am a pervert" this from a strapping lad who presumably cares not what the women think
"I was literally dragged out of the club and I was asked 'do I carry a card to.identify that I am trans and I should be using that toilet'"

Whereas the women talk about being mistaken for man in the women's toilets, that they are scared to use the men's toilets, that they (as a male-presenting woman) will use the men's only as long as they feel it is safe.

The men among them demand to use the women's loos

Of course they do.

Those kids are so stoopid
As if we can't see immediately whether they are male or female!

What IS it with non binaries?

This BBC video appeared on my feed - these non binaries appear to reject the strict two-gender boxes. I thought I agreed with pretty much all they say, except:

• The men among them demand to use the women's loos
• Pronouns
• They confuse sex and gender AGAAAAAAIN

Germaine Greer said something once about a wonderful future where you couldn't immediately tell if someone was male or female and how thrilling this would be. (I can't find quote but she referred to it when I saw her talk recently). I guess non binaries want something similar, at least for them as individuals?!

Making your identity hang on your sex is what's causing the whole problem here - ABOLISH GENDER - be what you like, but denying that you have a sex helps no-one and just denies the basic reality that some people make sperm and some people have eggs, and that's just how human life works.

This sums it up for me.

I thought passports were already gender neutral. After all, they are not issued with pink or blue covers.

The Women and Equality Select Committee is not fit for purpose IMO

^^this

Intersex people still have a sex.
Most intersex people appear male or female with complications. CAIS and PAIS is complex as they appear female but have a Y chromosome so in those cases only I would say chromosomes don't straightforwardly denote sex but AIS people don't usually discover they aren't biologically female until puberty so not actually ambiguous at all.

sex discrimination law would not protect them from discrimination for not having a sex

Unless they're intersex (and we all know that these people never are), then they'll have a sex. This means that their aim is for the law to be changed to state an untruth. The person is either delusional or derives satisfaction from forcing people, who don't want to, to state complete untruths.

The emperor has no fucking clothes for sure.

Personally I'd self censor the use of "Progressive".

It's getting connotations of blinkered authoritarian thinking. See also current SNP use in signage.

What IS it with non binaries? I seriously don't get it. Knock yourself out and call yourself something, I don't care. But what does it actually mean. In real life. From day to day. Apart from what clothes you wear.

Is it that you get triggered and erased if someone says male or female and then forgets to say and non binaries?

If they're having a heart attack, is the doctor supposed to scan his textbook to find the symptoms for someone who is neither male nor female? If they have sex and don't want a child to be the result, how do they know whether to go on the pill or wear a condom?

What's it for?

I suspect it's a kickback against the perception of our gendered society and not wanting to adhere to it.

In which case, get out from under the trans umbrella and get into feminism.

Fight for the right of sexual equality, not create a third box for superficial reasons and then do fuck all about sexism.

Own your sex and campaign on behalf of it, not pretend it doesn't exist.

They basically said they were a non person legally as sex discrimination law would not protect them from discrimination for not having a sex and the gov needed to change this urgently. They thought I was an awful transphobe when I challenged this and reported me to twitter then whined when twitter didn't take any action.

I use they as I don't know what sex this person was for definite as it was twitter and pic not clear. I suspect male though.

Adalind I had a totally boggling twitter conversation with one of these people. They said they had no legal rights as they were not male or female.