Murray Edwards College Cambridge

Lady - the college's first year rooms are all single en-suite - it doubles as conference accommodation. The allocation of rooms in higher years, as I understand it does preclude having to share with anyone unless they positively want to, and groups can request rooms in blocks. In this case the 'dorm' scenario does appear to be not as much of an issue as some might fear.

Sex is a protected class, so at some point here's going to be a test case to see if having a penis makes you female, or excludes you from women only spaces and puts you with other people who have a penis..
Test cases make me nervous.

What will happen when a 13 year old natal female who identified as male wants to go to Charterhouse or Harrow?

DH teaches in a private girls' school and their current policy is you have to be a natal female to join the school but if you want to transition once there that's acceptable. Can't really see the logic in that.

(The other thing I absolutely hate about that telegraph piece is that they put a pic of mel giedroyc up and caption it that sue perkins went to murray edwards. So they're saying that they're interchangeable or the same person - or any old bird off the bakeoff will do.)

On the issue of single sex education, I don't feel strongly about it, and I certainly don't think that women are delicate flowers who have to be protected from boys or men at all times. I feel much the same as I do about any women-only space. Sometimes I just don't want to be around men, and there are fewer and fewer opportunities to be only around women. I don't hate men (I am married to one and have three sons after all), but I also like being in the company of women, and I resent being told that men have the right to infiltrate a women-only space. It seems as though the right to associate with a group of women is being eroded.

I don't want to undermine the rights of vulnerable young people either, but I can't help thinking that their needs can be better met in different ways, and that this change is not an altogether positive step for the rights of women.

So you turn up at Murray Edwards, see your room mate... and they are a bloke. And you can't complain because that would be offensive and discriminatory.

Presumably it would have to be a pretty militant trans person who would apply specifically to Murray Edwards when there are so many other colleges. And so, perhaps, they would then be keen to push the boundaries (every pun intended) and request a shared room as a challenge; if the authorities denied the request it would be discrimination.

Any transboy at Harrow would get mocked anyway because they can't inherit the title under current legislation anyway......I guess their sister at Cambridge would inherit even with their identification as a woman, so the House of Lords isn't redefining man whatever the uni says.

Disappointing. I don't suppose all the students there are 'thrilled'.

"how we define women is changing"

And what about how we define men? Surely that has to change too? What will happen when a 13 year old natal female who identified as male wants to go to Charterhouse or Harrow? What will happen then?

It's bound to happen sooner or later and I'll be fascinated by the outcome.

I can very much understand why - it's such an important issue!

That's good to know Lass. When I was at uni I don't think the people who had to share got a choice about it, so things may have changed.

No I agree with you. It's just something I feel very strongly about!

Sorry to read of that Ereshkigal and I would entirely agree with your objections. I meant more that with many being afraid to dissent from the TRA line on this, some women may want to object but fear accusations of "transphobia" if hey do. They shouldn't be being in the position in the first place of course.

We have a variety of different rooms available on the main College site, including ensuite and split-level. A small number of rooms can be shared, but this is only ever at students' request. The College also has a number of houses close to the main College site which provide further accommodation

From the college website. Some rooms might involve sharing a bathroom if there is no en suite facilities.

It's a hill I would die on, NoLove. I had just come out of an abusive relationship when I went to uni. I couldn't have shared with a man.

How do they propose to ensure that a woman who does not want to share a room with a transwoman is protected?

Very good question. I also wonder how many will be hesitant to object lest they be accused of "transphobia".

we recognise that it is right for anyone who identifies as female, regardless of their born gender, to be able to apply to study with us."

Quite worrying this college either don't understand the difference between "sex" and "gender" or think we're all born with gender being innate. What a ridiculous move although it seems it's the inevitable consequence of what's going on with regards to this. How long before single sex schools are admitting pupils depending on how they or their parents feel they identify, I wonder.

In a statement published after the vote, the council stated that it has “sympathy with the idea that gender is not binary” and that “narrow gender identities” are damaging to “wider society”.

If they truly believed that they should simply be a mixed sex college. Instead they pick 2 indefensible options of retaining single sex and tearing up the rule book on what determines sex.

Clearly that is drivel but defending the right to single sex tertiary education is not something I'll lie down in a ditch and die for.

This is a recurring theme though.

If one is being forced into position where one has to defend woman only spaces, the next question is always why are they women only?

It's stealthy and two faced (I don't mean you Lass).

It's still not enough for women to say no. The basis on which they say no is constantly challenged.

Not because these men disagree with the reason why women have women only spaces, but because it's important to them to colonise that space. Therefore the reason they are women only is immaterial.

And women making decisions for themselves about themselves is simply not allowed.

I agree Lass. But the college has decided not to go down the route of mixed sex on the surface, but instead introduce it by the back door

"how we define women is changing"

Clearly that is drivel but defending the right to single sex tertiary education is not something I'll lie down in a ditch and die for.

i did start a thread but i used transphobic language in my haste so i asked for it to be taken down while i edited. i don't need to start another thread though - basically my point was that if applications are now open to anyone who identifies as a woman, where does that leave those students who apply because they want to be in a women-only space?

apparently the rationale behind the change is that most students apply to university when they are under 18 but you can't legally be recognised as having changed sex before the age of 18 so it's discriminatory.

but my view is that it's yet another instance of men being able to barge into a women's space. it's not like there aren't plenty of mixed colleges they can apply to.

Why not just become a mixed sex college?

I can see the point of women only colleges when only a tiny minority of women went to university but given that almost 50% of school leavers now do and of that 50% likely more than half will be female it seems anachronistic.

So far as segregation because of religious beliefs personally I cant support that and I don't think it should be encouraged.

So far as women who choose a female only environment for my other reason- what reason? We are talking about grownups going on to tertiary education. Women are not delicate flowers which need to be hot housed in male free glass houses.

There are lots of shared rooms at Murray Edwards college. How do they propose to ensure that a woman who does not want to share a room with a transwoman is protected? How will they ask? Will that not be difficult to enquire 'what gender were you assigned at birth?' (No I cannot bear that phrase either! No gender assigned! Sex noted and written down!) This has not been thought through...