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Original poster

I'm a gender critical feminist with a 'trans' child.

139 replies

Theoryofparenting · 24/09/2017 14:33

Just a question I've been wondering. I have 15 year old twins, both of whom are biologically female. However, one of them 'presents as male' and has done for a couple of years.

He tells me that TransActivists are stupid. He doesn't believe that people are born in the wrong body. He knows you can't change your sex. He doesn't 'identify as transgender'.

As a young child he would tell me that he was a boy, that he would be upset if he became a woman. I assumed it was a developmental phase (I was similar as a child), however as soon as puberty hit at 11 he went downhill. Eating disorders, self harm, depression, anxiety. He would never tell us the root cause until he came to us at 13 and told us how he was feeling. He does not have 'gender dysphoria' - he has 'sex dysphoria'. His feelings are not caused by gender roles/expectations.

When people ask about it, he tells them that he isn't 'transgender' as he never had a gender, just a sex. He says he feels more comfortable presenting how he does and that he strongly dislikes his body, not societies expectations.

He has never been to a gender therapist. He isn't on blockers or hormones. Anything like that is being delayed, by his choice as well as mine.

I strongly agree with the gender critical feminist point of view (as does he). We've been through so much because of how my child feels. He gets annoyed when people associate him with TransActivists, because he is nothing like them and disagrees with everything they say/do.

I made this thread to show that not all parents of 'trans' children agree with the agenda. All I want is for my child to be comfortable and happy. If anyone has any questions then I am more than happy to answer them.

OP posts:
Datun · 26/09/2017 09:34

There is nothing male about birthing two children.

If it triggered your dysphoria, then it must have been difficult.

Which is why gender is just about presentation. It's not about anything else.

No one can claim to be a man who has given birth to 2 children. It doesn't matter how difficult it was.

Ereshkigal · 26/09/2017 09:22

Gestating a child and giving birth is the most female thing it's possible to do. Didn't it trigger your dysphoria?

JigglyTuff · 26/09/2017 08:26

How can you be a 'ProudPapa' (and incidentally, who do all transpeople use all these cutesy names? stop it) if you gave birth to two children?

Your dysphoria must be dreadful if you managed to have PIV sex so many times you carried not one but two babies to term Hmm

sleighbellend · 26/09/2017 08:20

You never went on hormones or had any surgery - so how exactly are you a trans man then?

Also your attitude towards the OP sums up the narcissistic lunacy of the TA movement in a nutshell.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/09/2017 07:47

proudpapa

Did you miss this bit and some of the others

Evelyn He does plan on surgery and hormones, however he's told me that he's putting it off for as long as possible as there are possible side effects of testosterone, and he wants to be absolutely certain he is making the right choice (he's pretty certain at the minute).

It sounds like she is letting him decide

Im sorry your mum didnt do the same for you, it must have been hard for you

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 26/09/2017 06:08

Might be an interesting article for you, OP: www.1843magazine.com/features/when-girls-wont-be-girls

ProudPapa · 26/09/2017 00:02

This was a very interesting post! I am a trans man who never went on hormones or had any surgery and actually gave birth to two lovely bundles of joy with my DH! I actually had a mother a lot like you. She always bashed "those trannies" and despite the harm it caused to my mental health I'm happy her hate mongering kept me from looking and presenting the way I've always felt was right for me. Maybe your son will accept his dysphoria and force it down just like I did! Smile

AdultHumanFemale · 25/09/2017 23:47

Should say that I think your DS is super wise though, to delay hormone treatment. My nephew (formerly niece) is in the same situation, albeit a bit older, wondering whether to / when to begin testosterone treatment. He is now, after years down the rabbit hole of trans-yoof on social media and online communities, having lived as a boy for 5 years, starting to think he might just be a masculine presenting butch lesbian instead.

AdultHumanFemale · 25/09/2017 23:38

I don't see a conflict between knowing one can't change one's sex and not identifying as 'trans', and using male pronouns and wanting to pursue hormones and surgery. Seems to me that OP's DS regards pronouns, hormones and surgery as extensions of masculine presentation, undertaken in order to align appearance with preference. To the Nth degree, perhaps, but not incompatible with an acceptance of the impossibility of changing one's sex.
The irony I see is that, in area where self-identification is everything, the very definition 'trans' is one that can be imposed upon an individual who meets certain defined criteria (DSM5, American Psychiatric Association) whether or not the person themselves seek to identify as such.

drspouse · 25/09/2017 13:24

Yes exactly. Compare and contrast:

Body dysmorphia:

"If you have relatively mild BDD, you will usually be referred for a talking treatment called cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT). More severe cases may be treated with a type of medication called a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) and/or more intensive CBT."

Gender dysphoria
"Treatment for gender dysphoria aims to help reduce or remove the distressing feelings of a mismatch between biological sex and gender identity. This can mean different things for different people. For some people, it can mean dressing and living as their preferred gender. For others, it can mean taking hormones or also having surgery to change their physical appearance."

YetAnotherSpartacus · 25/09/2017 13:10

^ Except it didn't always ... but surgery was always the final step and its limitations acknowledged.

drspouse · 25/09/2017 12:58

No matter what we'd like, some people have dysmorphia to such an extent that they will be resistant to being told they're wrong or being sorted out by therapy and they will pursue surgery.

But "being told you are wrong" is rather different to "having extensive CBT and anti-depressants" which is what is known to work for body dysmorphia.

nauticant · 25/09/2017 12:33

That's all very well but that doesn't change the child's perception of her state.

No matter what we'd like, some people have dysmorphia to such an extent that they will be resistant to being told they're wrong or being sorted out by therapy and they will pursue surgery. The OP is sensible in accepting the reality of the situation and trying to influence from the inside rather than being an outside opponent.

drspouse · 25/09/2017 12:24

I'm going by what the OP says about how serious the dysphoria is. They probably know enough about the severity to make sure they don't minimise it.

You can have a tiny scar and extreme body dysmorphia.
There is nothing wrong with the OP's DC's body.
It is the DC's feelings about the body that are hard to manage/pathological.
It is not healthy to feel extreme aversion to a normal body - whether that's normal female genitalia or a normal facial configuration.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 25/09/2017 12:11

ohyes

Ds1 who is now 18 said similar...that he would probably feel presssure to be a girl

ohyesiknowwhatyoumean · 25/09/2017 12:07

I have a dd who decided, pre teens, that she now was a boy. She changed her name, got her friends to call her by the new name, and presented as a boy. Photos of her at that age look like a boy, strangers took her as a boy. I carried on with the mantra that she could call herself what she wanted and wear what she wanted and that being a girl should not limit what she did. I did not call her by her preferred name, nor refer to her as 'he'.

Now in her late 20's, and in a stable ltr with a man, she reflects on that time as a period when she could SEE that boys / men "had more fun", they were doing all the risky things she wanted to do and she never had any interest in "girly" things, didn't get the whole "doll" thing her sister was obsessed by (she used to decapitate her sister's Barbies).

A few years into puberty and she started using a 'stronger' version of her own girls name. She had some same sex relationships but then met her now partner.

Children, teenagers, young adults, explore, experiment and test boundaries. That's all good, natural and normal. It's only by looking back with the eyes of maturity that my dd understands what was going on in her own mind at that point.

I'm horrified at the thought that, if she were that pre-teen now, I would be being encouraged to 'help' her transition.

nauticant · 25/09/2017 11:56

nauticant I think the analogy would be someone with a tiny scar who thinks it is a bad facial disfigurement.

I'm going by what the OP says about how serious the dysphoria is. They probably know enough about the severity to make sure they don't minimise it.

drspouse · 25/09/2017 11:41

Have just had a quick Google.

If you have body dysmorphia - the goal is to help you realise that your body is normal/normal for you, and not disfigured.

However if you have gender dysphoria - the goal seems to be NOT to make you realise that your body is normal, but to either help you to present as the opposite sex or to have surgery/hormones to help you change your genitalia/secondary sexual characteristics.

Why the discrepancy? Is it just due to activism?

Sorry for the slight hijack.

drspouse · 25/09/2017 11:37

Given that there are psychological treatments for body dysmorphia, what is the state of treatment for gender dysphoria?

In other words, if someone has body dysmorphia, we don't say "yes you are hugely overweight despite only being 6 stone" or "yes your chin is disgusting, cut it off", we offer them therapy, and/or drugs.

nauticant I think the analogy would be someone with a tiny scar who thinks it is a bad facial disfigurement.

Many people who have bad disfigurement learn to live happily with it, and are realistic - either they cover it up happily, or they don't cover it up but live with it/have counselling/explain it to people.

But equally people who have a very slight disfigurement, or no flaws at all, become obsessed with one particular aspect of their appearance.

nauticant · 25/09/2017 11:28

I also don't struggle with "he". The child has dysphoria. This means "a profound state of unease". Even though the child is aware enough to understand that they are female and can't change sex, they are looking for relatively small accommodations to ease their unease.

An analogy to me would be someone with a bad facial disfigurement avoiding mirrors. They would know this doesn't remove the disfigurement but would be avoiding being presented with the fact it's there.

Wheresmytaco · 25/09/2017 11:25

I've got no personal problems with using someone's preferred pronouns, though I admit It clouds the issues in our language. I'd call Miranda "she" to be polite as she likes it. And I'd agree it's similar to using Miss/ms/mrs. They mean fuck all other than our society is obsessed with marital status

Wheresmytaco · 25/09/2017 11:24

I'm honestly not trying to be inflammatory but I really don't understand. If your daughter knows that she can't change sex and that she is female, why do you refer to her as "he"? Surely that's just buying into the idea of being able to change sex?

I don't see how the above is any different to Miranda Yardley. The op's daughter would be a transsexual who wants to be male but is aware she isn't. Using "he" is just a nicety. Some languages don't even differentiate between he and she so it's not as though either is necessary in language.

nauticant · 25/09/2017 11:14

The OP knows that if her child is dysphoric enough then when they are older they may choose to have hormone treatment and surgery. At that time there would be nothing the OP could do to stop this. The OP is probably also aware that coming down hard now and telling her child what's going to happen could well have the opposite effect.

While the child is talking about hormone treatment and surgery but isn't committed to it, the OP's approach makes sense to me.

Boulshired · 25/09/2017 11:01

I was with you until you mentioned drugs and surgery. So your son is transsexual and is self identifying. He does want to change sex. There will be many transgender who would be technically transsexual but prefer the transgender name as the umbrella name.

YogaDrone · 25/09/2017 11:01

I don't see it this way - both Ms and Mrs are female titles. I see it more like me saying that I will henceforward only be known as Rear Admiral Drone, despite my never having been in the Navy or having any intention of being in the Navy. It seems delusional, and yet the OP and her daughter do not seem, from her posts, to be delusional. Hence my question.