DEBATE NOT HATE: WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT GENDER

Oops, should have refreshed thread before posting...

This article?
quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

Yes that's it Datun and thanks Empress.

This is the link to the article about Molly.
quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

Along with the government definition of trans.

MCBeatsandGrindah

The girl was called Milly or Molly, I can't quite remember. And her male name was Max. Was that the one?

Datun was that the one by Becca Reilly-Cooper?

smarties

Just keep talking about it. Write to MPs. Join feminist groups, Facebook pages, blogs. Have your conviction ready for if, or when, the question comes up.

And I do believe it's beginning to be called out for the stupendous act of sinister control that it is.

I hope so Datun, I really do.
The question is, how can we 'speed up' the process or at least give it a louder voice?

Am sick of saying that we aren't anti-trans, we're just pro-women and protective of all those rights that have been fought for.

ALittleBitOfButter

Exactly. And by that reasoning, every disabled person, black person, homosexual, women, in fact every minority/oppressed group in the world has privilege by dint of
the fact that they were born that way.

It's a spectacular piece of manipulation and gaslighting.

I was reading a piece about a woman whose daughter transitioned. It was heartbreaking. And, according to the article, entirely down to social contagion.

After transitioning and hormone treatment, the girl became even more isolated and unhappy.

Having been encouraged to transition by online activists, they now turned round and blamed the fact that everyone hated her because she was trans as the source of her misery.

Unaccountably, it's a blindingly successful tactic.

And I do believe it's beginning to be called out for the stupendous act of sinister control that it is.

I agree Weewitch. Can people born disabled and deformed "identify" as able-bodied? No, but they have cis-disabled privilege or whatever.

YY, I find it very hard to stomach too, Weewitch.

“So quite why some think 'non-binary' is anything special is beyond me”

I think that’s the point I’m angsting over most at the moment - the pure navel gazing entitlement of the whole trans rights movement. Comparatively few people actually get to be whatever or whoever they want to be in life. I wanted to be something I’m not, I’ve struggled with my body and my appearance at times in my life (who hasn’t!), but I’ve never asked anyone else to change in order to accommodate me or blamed others for my own situation.

You can jump up and down and stamp your feet as much as you want, but you can’t deny the facts or circumstances of your birth. If you are born in a first world country to parents who love and provide for you then you are already more privileged than a high percentage of the world population. To fabricate “oppression” from this position of privilege because you feel you should perhaps have been born as someone else, or because you feel you want to be someone else, is the height of entitlement.

I wasn't being aggressive. Simply concise.

I don't know why there's a need to post in such an aggressive manner. It is a shame some accept "cis", I wasn't insinuating most do but posting why I think it's damaging

Yes, I know, you said it was a shame that some willingly adopt 'cis'.

I wanted to point out that many women don't as, in my experience, if someone doesn't do this, this point gets lost.

If that's a response to my post I said "some".

Absolutely no way do many women, including myself, accept the use of the word 'cis'.

It's a shame some willingly adopt "cis" as a prefix, then talk about "cis privilege" as if "cis women" (women) have "privilege" over people born male. It's very effective as it silences objections to misogyny, places women in the position of "the privileged" thus meaning it's perfectly acceptable to abuse and attack as it's the "oppressed" hitting back against the "privileged" - a means of defending male violence as well as silencing women I think.

FirstShinyRobe

Exactly. What is the knowledge? Where is the behaviour? What do the clothes look like?

What is the actual stuff that divides people by gender?

Who has the list? You know, the one that has all the personality traits, behaviours, clothing options and such like that is used to divide the population.

YY. Fuck that.

'Cis' is an attempt to make women wear the prefix.

What I always find amusing when TAs start their crap, is how sure they are that we 'terfs' are 'cis'. When 99 times of 100, us terfs think gender in itself is just bollocks and that we don't have a 'gender identity' at all. Which would technically make us a-gender, genderqueer, whatever.

They are so sure we're "cis" because it's meaningless and they know it. It's just a nasty little label they use to set up a false narrative of female privilege over males.

Women have been saying this for decades, but it takes a man in a dress to say the same thing AND BE LISTENED TOO

He is a woman now. They will smile and nod and ignore and nothing will change

"Isn't this classic 'hepeating'?"
That's the word! Much better than my rambling rant.

Plus means they get into the BBC '100 Women' series (unlike all us boring ole feminists who have been talking about this stuff for years and years and years............).

The more I think, the more annoyed I get at this appropriation of our experience, and our space to talk about our experience. Probably tell us we have been doing our complaining all wrong next, or expect extra cookies cos they have calculated how much women lose out (cos the plain ole women who have done those calculations obviously can't be trusted to have got them right!)...................