Gender reassignment surgery... Would you then be happy with them in female spaces?

"Just be nice."

No. I will not be "nice". My rights are my rights, and my boundaries are my boundaries. If I say no to the violation of my boundaries, and that is perceived as me not being "nice", then any person who thinks I should accommodate them by allowing my boundaries and rights to be trodden all over really needs to examine and modify their own sense of entitlement, and not try to guilt me via traditional female socialisation into capitulating.

I'm not interested in continuing to have a conversation with people who use ridiculous arguments about trans people being rapists or with people who call my mentioning my own experience of being violently assaulted by a woman as 'predictable'.

Some of you are truly fucking gross

Can I ask if anyone knows who these trans women with intact penises (95% of the transwoman population according to recent statistics) actually date? Do they date straight men? Because surely those straight men get a shock when presented with a penis?

"So in your lovely world where we try to keep everyone safe, where does the safety of female people fit?"

They should do as they are told. Or will be called outrageous bigots. Nice ethical code right there.

crowdo and on that basis would you be happy if Ian Huntley was moved to a women's prison because he's decided he's now Lian?
Do you really think that's safe for the women prisoners who are possibly the most vulnerable women in our society??
Bearing in mind there is already a violent rapist who has been moved to a women's prison because he is transgender.

Oh Crowdo. I don't think there's a single logical, rational, reasonable argument in the world that could convince you you've got this all wrong, no matter how compassionately expressed, because you're not operating from a place of reason. It doesn't matter what anyone on here says, you're determined to believe we're all a bunch of vile bigots who just hate trans people and wish them harm.

Even when one of the people you disagree with is herself a transwoman, you are determined to categorise her voice as petty and small minded because she doesn't think like you think she should.

I for one am always very glad to read Curry's posts as they serve as a soothing and reassuring antidote to the vitriol and delusion that characterises most of the TRA narrative. Please try and understand, Crowdo, that most of us on here have no argument with your average transwoman; what we are dead against is the ideology of Trans Rights Activists that is misogynist, homophobic (especially lesbophobic) and abusive to children. If you are happy to support those things then you haven't got a moral leg to stand on.

You are happy to share your spaces with your TW friends: good. But that is not the point here. And you literally cannot see what is happening in front of you because you have got your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears.

Over the last few days there have been quite a few women posting on MN saying that up till now they had been committed trans allies, arguing exactly as you are now doing, slating any dissenters as vile, evil bigots etc. And now the scales have fallen from their eyes and suddenly they SEE what the problem is here. Maybe one day you'll get there.

In the meantime I have no doubt you'll continue to froth and raise your blood pressure with all the vigour of the most committed Daily Mail reader. There is a bigot on this thread, most assuredly, just not who you think it is.

The irony is that if anyone expected adult humans males to be nice and kind and look out for everyone around them, we wouldn't need sex segregated facilities.

Or prisons, or courts, or laws. We could just get along nicely together

Nobody would have competing interests at all - not going to happen in this world.

I consider it my role to keep everyone around me happy and safe. As a human being, not as a vagina bearer.

Problem with this is though, that most of us want those around us to be safe. But when so much violence, and nearly all sexual violence is committed by one of the sexes against the other sex, surely its entirely plausible that the weaker sex (by biology, not buying into stereotypes, just males tend to be much stronger and able to overpower females...and do so on an astonishingly depressing basis) need areas of life away from the dominating sex.

Obviously male people should be entitled to privacy from female people also. But its not quite as pressing a matter as on the whole, females are not a danger to males on anywhere near a scale as vice versa.

So in your lovely world where we try to keep everyone safe, where does the safety of female people fit? Or does that not matter as much? As the safety of females from males does not seem to be crossing your mind very much in this particular argument, thats all. I am sure you do think female people should also be safe. I am just having a hard time working out how you think that to solve male people being scared of other male people, we should throw male people in with female people. How does that solution keep everyone safe? It really doesn't, at all. But this seems to be not thought of...why?

I've been sexually assaulted before by a woman. Does that mean you're not allowed in a changing room with me?

And that's where I lose interest. Achingly predictable.

As long as there are no urinals.
Urinals don't belong in Women's toilets, because women don't have a penis.
There's no need.

The irony is that if anyone expected adult humans males to be nice and kind and look out for everyone around them, we wouldn't need sex segregated facilities.

This.

The irony is that if anyone expected adult humans males to be nice and kind and look out for everyone around them, we wouldn't need sex segregated facilities.

I'm actually shocked

Oh give it a rest. Just stop 🙄

What an amazingly misogynistic term 'vagina-bearer' is! I'm female because (really interesting mosaicism and human chimeras aside) every cell in my body is, not just because I happen to possess a "penis sheath" FFS.................
Sorry Crowdo (if female) feels so ashamed of their own biological sex.

The majority of trans activists are rapists? Bloody hell. You really believe that bollocks?

I'm actually shocked.

Now you're being silly.
You're deliberately twisting sentences and taking things out of context.

I consider it my role to keep everyone around me happy and safe. As a human being, not as a vagina bearer.

By telling people they must be nice, you are only telling people not to fight back. They will not be safe. They will just not be able to defend themselves. No one is being aggressive. They just do not want to be bullied by hard-line aggressors (or punched).

The only way to do that is to talk about it and find a proper legal way together. Not resort to name-calling, rape threats and punching back.

No, that they are male centric "willy wavers". Not rapists. Don't be disingenuous, it's not a good look.

It needs to be said that it's outrageous to say that penis-havers (get me and my trans activist friendly terminology) are male? You're truly fighting the good fight here, Crowdo.

I know trans people and I wouldn't deny the one of them the shelter of coming into my space if they needed that to feel comfortable.

What about other people, like women who've experienced male violence and need to feel safe and comfortable? Why do only trans feelings, comfort and needs count?

The majority of trans activists are rapists? Bloody hell. You really believe that bollocks?

I'm actually shocked.

I don't care who agrees with me. It needs to be said.

Pmsl!

Why on EARTH is it outrageous to say that having, or ever having had a penis and testicles makes you male?!

Frankly, I don't want to see anyone put in a position where they need psychiatric help be denied it, for whatever reason

But this is whats happening due to transactivism! These transactivists actively want to stop trans people from accessing help such as this

I now see why yourself and people on this thread are misunderstanding each others points.

You aren't too up to date on transactivism and what laws and such are changing, are you? I don't mean that to sound patronizing. with a certain amount of mental gymnastics its entirely possible to be up to date with what 'trans' means now, and exactly the kind of people were are dealing with...just its unlikely that many would understand this, and still hold the views you hold.

Who on earth are these violent willy wavers some of MN are imagining? Sadly, the majority of the most vocal transactivists. And considerably large numbers of the total 'transgender' population.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3036489-Woman-attacked-by-transactivists-at-speakers-corner-part-deux?pg=1

Is well worth a read, if you are genuinely interested rather than just trying to silence the discussion.

As is searching up on autogynephilia

Most of us do know transwomen in real life that wouldn't hurt a fly. Unfortunately, there is no way laws can be made that would distinguish between the many different kinds of transwomen that exist...

So transgender people are rapists and punch old ladies?

I've been sexually assaulted before by a woman. Does that mean you're not allowed in a changing room with me?