TRANS HEALTH MANIFESTO

We need to be able to discuss gender perceptions in order to promote the rejection of perceptions that are non inclusive, restrictive, reductive, not compatible with feminism, not compatible with science and not compatible with equality.

I sort of see what you mean.

Provide a list of stereotypes?

So as soon as people looked at what we are actually talking about, instead of some kind of woolly definition, they will see how stupid/detrimental they are?

And we need the terms (masculine/feminine) and an understanding of the concepts related to them, in order to discuss historical and cross societal gender perceptions.

I get that what I don't get is why you want to keep the concept of masculinity and femininity at all.

Because we need the terms in order to have a discussion about gender. We need to be able to discuss gender perceptions in order to promote the rejection of perceptions that are non inclusive, restrictive, reductive, not compatible with feminism, not compatible with science and not compatible with equality.

Because, if we don't, you get the transactivist ideologies which claim not conforming to the sexual stereotypes, relating to the gender perceptions connected to biological sex, renders someone trans or non binary

I get that what I don't get is why you want to keep the concept of masculinity and femininity at all.

Wow! That reads like Vercua Salt's letter to Santa.

No pony? Fucking noobs.

Because, if we don't, you get the transactivist ideologies which claim not conforming to the sexual stereotypes, relating to the gender perceptions connected to biological sex, renders someone trans or non binary.

Your definition renders "feminine" and "masculine" completely redundant. People do things, say things and think things. What point is there in distinguishing whether these things are feminine if done by a woman or masculine if done by a man?

Lass, the point is we need to address what is masculine and feminine in order to challenge sexual stereotypes within perceptions of gender. People do have gender perceptions, in order to challenge stereotypical ones, we need to accept people's perceptions exist, in order to promote the discussion of how close to reality they are.

Because it's men who decide. Hence oppression. And gender as a hierarchy.

There's no point in oppressing anyone or any class of anyone unless there is some kind of material gain.

However we don't have to lie down and let oppression defeat us. If men have used gender to oppress, women can use it to liberate.

Lass,
Your position seems to be pink is feminine if a woman wears it and masculine if a man wears it. And I'm struggling to see what point you are making.

My point is, gender, whether we like it or not, does exist as a social construct. Because ideas and ideologies exist. What I am suggesting, is that acknowledging this, empowers people to ensure the prevailing ideas and ideologies, within society, are ones we find acceptable. Instead of demoting the importance of social constructs we should ensure we are part of the construction of them.

What do I define as feminity? Anything that that someone of the female sex says, does and thinks. Masculinity, anything that someone of the male sex says, does and thinks

My definition simply rejects those stereotypes and redefines stereotypical expectations

Your definition renders "feminine" and "masculine" completely redundant. People do things, say things and think things. What point is there in distinguishing whether these things are feminine if done by a woman or masculine if done by a man?

The stereotype is pink for girls blue for boys.

The feminist position is these are just colours. That is getting rid of the stereotype.

Your position seems to be pink is feminine if a woman wears it and masculine if a man wears it. And I'm struggling to see what point you are making.

People who have and want non restrictive or reductive expectations of male and females are a large part of society*

These are women.

Why is this sector of society's expectations and beliefs not represented in how we view gender

Because it's men who decide. Hence oppression. And gender as a hierarchy.

There's no point in oppressing anyone or any class of anyone unless there is some kind of material gain.

Gender is simply the social and personal expectations and beliefs concerning male and females. People who have and want non restrictive or reductive expectations of male and females are a large part of society. Why is this sector of society's expectations and beliefs not represented in how we view gender

Is shaving legs only feminine? Do masculine men never wear skirts?

TBH, traditional stereotypes are pretty old fashioned and non representative of women today. Up to date gender expectations surely would represent modern femininity and masculinity, at the very least. More hopefully, gender expectations would be progressive and look to what we want masculinity and femininity to mean for the future.

Correction, that should say 'male and female'.

How so Lass?

If gender is a social construct, we, as part of society construct it. Gender concerns beliefs and expectations, in terms of behaviour, appearance and achievements, of men and women. Feminism can define those expectations and validly as any other part of society. My definition simply rejects those stereotypes and redefines stereotypical expectations.

We demand resources for hair removal anywhere on our bodies, and the option of local anesthetic during these procedures.

Wimps

What do I define as feminity? Anything that that someone of the female sex says, does and thinks. Masculinity, anything that someone of the male sex says, does and thinks

I'm not sure that is a terribly useful definition.

Of course anything that relates to specific experiences, concerning biology, of either sex, such as giving birth would be outside the cross over.

Datun

It's going to get to the point where unless you tick F as your gender, you have to be trans

My gender isn't F, because I don't subscribe to the hierarchical concept of it

If you think it means you're feminine, what's the damn point? Who cares?

Thank you Datun - that is the point I was trying to make and clearly failing to.

Sorry Venn diagram. Autocorrect fail. (Although vent diagram might be quite apt!)

What do I define as feminity? Anything that that someone of the female sex says, does and thinks. Masculinity, anything that someone of the male sex says, does and thinks. And in a vent diagram the circles would either be on top of each other or there would be a huge crossover area.

It's not that femininity is compatible or incompatible with being a feminist or being a female.

It's just a collection of stereotypes. But the crux of the matter is what are those stereotypes?

We often talk about them on here. But in actuality, they are very loose and ill defined.

So to reclaim femininity as something that could be progressive, what do you define as feminity?