Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

This is what I got back:

Many thanks for getting in touch about equality issues.

Labour is the party of equality. We believe that no-one should be left behind. To achieve that, the next Labour Government will build a Britain for the many, a more equal and tolerant society that treats people of all backgrounds with dignity and respect.

Under the Tories, progress is being rolled back for women, disabled people, LGBT people and BAME communities.

Policies introduced by the Conservatives have turned the clock back on gender equality. Our challenge now must be to build on Labour’s past achievements and push for full equality for women: financially, in the workplace, in families and homes, online and in public spaces. A Labour Government will gender audit all policy and legislation for its impact on women before implementation.

Labour will champion the rights of disabled people. We will reverse Tory changes to Personal Independence Payments and scrap the Tories’ unfair and counterproductive sanctions regime. We will ensure disabled people get the support they need by scrapping Work Capability Assessments and replacing them with fairer, more personal support.

The last Labour Government did more for LGBT equality than any other government in British history and the next Labour Government won’t stop fighting for LGBT equality. We will build on our history of championing LGBT rights, tackling homophobia wherever it occurs.

Labour will work every day for a fairer society, where every person is enabled to get on in life, regardless of race, faith or ethnicity. We will implement a comprehensive strategy for racial equality, one that effectively challenges the socio-economic disadvantage many Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic communities suffer.

With Labour, no-one and no community will be left behind. We will strengthen legislation around equal pay and tackle the barriers that stop women, BAME communities, LGBT and disabled people from reaching their full potential.

Only Labour will create a fairer, more equal society where whatever your background, wherever you are from, you have the means and opportunity to fulfil your potential.

Best wishes,
George
Membership Services and Correspondence
The Labour Party

busyboysmum I just got a letter from my MP (Diane Abbott) in response to an email I sent her about the Speakers Corner violence - so a long wait for a reply! I am quite pissed off as she starts off "Thank you for taking the time to write to me about Trans Rights" ! I wasn't actually, I was writing about a woman being beaten up by transactivists! In face, the whole letter is badly written, jumbled nonsense. I know she doesn't write the letters herself and I hope her thoughts are rather more coherent.

Rumandraisin1

Tbh, I don't think my position has fundamentally changed - but what trans means has changed, the kind of people who are identifying as trans has massively changed and the 'agenda' has massively changed

This video analyses the meaning of the word transgender, as put forward by all the trans organisations. And exposes the fact that the definition is meaningless.

Magdelen Berns, for anyone who isn't familiar with her, is very incisive in her analysis of trans issues. She was thrown out of her LGBT society at Edinburgh university for saying she wouldn't sleep with a transwoman, because she is a lesbian.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=lVgychW1YPQ

Rumandraisin you've nailed it at 'Wed 04-Oct-17 22:16:54'.

I was very supportive until I realised that trans gender women felt they were just like any other women and entitled to force me to call myself cis.

I've gone from a position of being so open and inclusive to all to never wanting to hear the word "trans" ever again. I'm sick to death of the whole self indulgent nonsense.

Same here, although I don't feel I can afford to just be sick to death of it as it is such a threat to women. Also it's very much in my real life already (so I'm someone who can already see its impact, although I think this will start to be the case for more and more people).

Tbh, I don't think my position has fundamentally changed - but what trans means has changed, the kind of people who are identifying as trans has massively changed and the 'agenda' has massively changed (if there really was one before). There are still the traditional transsexuals (people with dysmorphia who just want to get on with their life) but there are massive numbers of other people (some violent, disturbed, predatory, extremely misogynist) who have jumped on board and taken over (both the trans and the wider LGBT movement) - but use examples of problems faced by actual transsexuals to advance a different agenda all together.

I also wrote a letter to Jeremy Corbyn asking him when he was going to start standing up for women's rights. Weirdly I got the exact same letter back from him so it must just be a copy and paste job to anybody who writes to labour raising any issues about gender identity.

I've written to mine also. Just got a load of guff back. Toeing the party line. Not sure any of them are able to think independently unfortunately.

Yes totally hacked off with all this and just want it to go away now. However I did overcome my intense boredom and irritation with the subject to write to my MP today using the outline provided by A Woman’s Place to demand legislative protections. Do think about doing the same if you can: link here

Me three. I've got gender fatigue.

Me too, Twenty years ago I wouldn't have seen what the problem was. Now it's all too clear.

I've gone from a position of being so open and inclusive to all to never wanting to hear the word "trans" ever again. I'm sick to death of the whole self indulgent nonsense.

YY

That's not a true equivalence JAPAB. A more accurate comparison would be if individuals first called for Melanie Phillips to be killed or otherwise hurt, then went ahead and commited that violence. Then high profile groups and individuals not only refused to condemn the threats of violence but also excused and applauded it whilst using anti-woman slurs.

I've gone from a position of being so open and inclusive to all to never wanting to hear the word "trans" ever again. I'm sick to death of the whole self indulgent nonsense.

Maybe the subsequent violence changes some minds.

Pity if so. It would be like changing your mind on homosexual issues and rights because of the specific individuals who, say, called for Melanie Phillips to be killed after she was critical. The intrinsic rights and wrongs of a side not being determined by the extremer actions of some individuals on one side of the fence.

2017, the year where you can produce milk and feed babies from your chest and where you have to refer to pregnant women as pregnant people so as to include any pregnant men

This is only a consideration when speaking about entire groups for which there are no guarantees that only non-trans females are being referred to. I don't think anyone has ever said that you cannot refer to specific, non-trans pregnant or breastfeeding women with these terms.

2017, the year where you can produce milk and feed babies from your chest and where you have to refer to pregnant women as pregnant people so as to include any pregnant men This thread is frustrating and hilariously scary in equal measures. I'm out.

Maybe the subsequent violence changes some minds.

No, they are just reviewing the attack 'to improve tactics'.

www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/73tgpd/you_will_need_to_recruit_cis_women_willing_to/

That clip looks like it was taken from the side the TRAs were on. I wonder if it was filmed by one of them. Maybe the subsequent violence changes some minds.

Well that's as clear as day. Hope that's been shared with the police too.

A bit more footage, filmed by the transactivists:

giphy.com/gifs/l378ARVyFkBwhm7OE

Brilliant post, Pencils. Absolutely brilliant.

Transmen are advised to have a hysterectomy within 5 years of starting T because of the increased risk of gynecological cancers. A transman who becomes pregnant and wants to continue needs to stop taking T because it's highly toxic to the foetus. What are the effects on the foetus of T exposure before the pregnancy was detected? What are the effects of recently discontinued maternal testosterone and the atrophy of uterine tissues that will quite likely have caused? Should we just not ask these questions out of politeness and respect?

Meanwhile IVF is increasingly rationed and women's pregnancies are heavily policed from the moment of conception and increasingly pre-conception. There are medications and treatments that are contraindicated in 'women of childbearing age' unless they agree to LARC. We can't get sterilisation despite begging for decades. We need two doctors' permission to get an abortion.

Conception, pregnancy and birth seem to be everybody's business when it's just normal women involved.

is chestfeeding a harmful cultural practice? If it's simply breastfeeding but by another name by a transman who's not had surgery then of coruse it isn't.

Do you have any actual evidence that it's not harmful to be 'chestfed' by a woman so dysphoric about her body she can't even name her own breasts? Is she back on testosterone? What are the effects of that on the child? What are the effects on the mother's mental health of doing an activity that is highly likely to increase her dysphoria? What are the knock on effects of that on the child? You seem convinced that this trans ideology will blow over at some point in the near future. Maybe it will but that child then has to grow up and make sense of this.

I admit I know very little about chestfeeding after surgery. Is this an area you know anything about? Do you have any actual evidence it's detrimental to children?

Transmen who've had 'top surgery' (another lovely euphemism) have had almost all of their breast tissue removed. It's incredibly unlikely they will be able to successfully feed a child from what's left. I ask again, who are they doing this for? What is the baby supposed to get out of this?

None of us 'have any actual evidence' yet of harm, it's all a lovely big uncontrolled experiment. On children.

You're only paying lip service to it yourself - you are saying we must be respectful by calling this 'chestfeeding' yet at the same time you refer to mastectomy and 'the need to chop their breasts off' rather than the euphemistic 'chest masculinization surgery'.

Fair point.

Faced with harmful cultural practices is chestfeeding a harmful cultural practice? If it's simply breastfeeding but by another name by a transman who's not had surgery then of coruse it isn't.

I admit I know very little about chestfeeding after surgery. Is this an area you know anything about? Do you have any actual evidence it's detrimental to children?

MrsKnightley The Times is utterly brilliant at the moment

But it's not OK for us to tell a distinct group what to call their practices. This is where we get into dodgy territory.

I really wish some women didn't feel the need to chop their breasts off to be themselves in this society. But that is my perspective. I have NO right to tell transmen what to call their practice of chestfeeding, no matter what I might think of it. It's their culture and up to them.

This is the worst sort of cultural relativism and something I thought we'd moved on from since we learnt to call FGM what it is. You're only paying lip service to it yourself - you are saying we must be respectful by calling this 'chestfeeding' yet at the same time you refer to mastectomy and 'the need to chop their breasts off' rather than the euphemistic 'chest masculinization surgery'.

Faced with harmful cultural practices we need clear language to describe what's going on, especially when those practices affect other people as well as the one practising them. There are two people involved in a breastfeeding relationship. You don't appear to have considered the child in this at all.

GiantSteps puts it well - it seems to me that a post-mastectomy pregnancy is evidence of mental confusion needing careful and compassionate therapy, not surgery. We should be compassionate but that does not include reinforcing delusions.

Times, on it again today.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/linda-bellos-barred-in-cambridge-university-row-0pbdq5sm9?shareToken=66000969235c795040c4c4a8c41f7d0d

And this one

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-fluid-girl-boards-with-boys-zv90hk5bp?shareToken=e381232f13598e12feabf59b293a04de