Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

When they say "TERFs are literally killing transwomen" they're gettting their po-mo reading (not) all mixed up.

There's a post-structuralist notion (drawn from Marx, I think ...) called "epistemic violence", and also a concept of "symbolic violence."

These ideas are fair enough: they help us to identify the ways in which, for example, sexual harassment such as catcalling or slutshaming, are harmful to girls and women. Words can do things (as J.L. Austin argued in the 1950s).

But it's a big leap from ideas of epistemic or symbolic violence, to assert that words do "literal" or "actual" violence." And not one that the most fanatical political campaigner - faced with, say actual murderous DV against women, or rape, or homosexual bashings of gay men & lesbians - would concede, I suspect.

I suppose we should be heartened that the Guardian published that letter, but it feels rather too little too late.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/24/violence-against-women-transgender-debate?CMP=share_btn_tw letter in guardian from a bunch of charity/society heads, campaigners, professors, etc.

Nope, none at all

Have you made it on to Terfblocker yet?

Factsarenotmean I got blocked when, in reply to "TERFs are literally killing transwomen" I asked them for statistics on these alleged killings.

No discussion allowed.

Smarties you mentioned that some of the other staff were too, can you band together so you are less at risk?

7 comments published since this morning.

I know. It's so much of a head fuck though. It feels like you are on the back foot all the time

AssignedPerfectAtBirth

Absolutely. I'm fully behind correct stats, up-to-date. Science, all of it.

There's no point in engaging, on any level, unless you are fully informed and can cite reputable sources.

I hadn't seen this video of the Speakers' Corner attack. It's really much clearer to see what happened

Thanks Datun. I have been asked to source it before so was just looking for some material. i have been building up literature over time

AssignedPerfectAtBirth

Sorry I haven't actually looked at the stats in months, so I don't have them at my fingertips.

But a brief google gives me this:

Since 2000, 853 transwomen have had surgery to change sex.

Not sure when this link was written, possibly 2009. So that's in nine years. Which is 0.34%? Have I got that right?

One would have to assume that surgeries have gone up since then, but it's not very high.

www.bournemouth.gov.uk/councildemocratic/Statistics/Documents/JSNA/GenderReassignment.pdf

I've had a couple of Sunday afternoon Pimms, (desperately hanging onto summer) so I might have to address it more fully later.

The inclusion of autogynephiles will have skewed the stats. They don't tend to have surgery. So if they are included in the transgender population it will push the percentage down.

Many transwomen, genuine transsexuals, want to separate themselves from those with AGP.

Their motivation is entirely different, and their goals are also completely different.

Datun
Could you give me source for that stat please. Thanks

Gingernaut

I can't see any comments. Are they moderating all of them?

Th mail is still insisting on making it look as though there are two extreme factions, at each others throats.

Not just normal women who are trying to talk about something that is very concerning.

If they put in any of their articles that 85% of transwomen retain their genitalia and are attracted to women, that would like the touch paper.

Just do it Daily Mail.

TELL IT LIKE IT IS.

Be the first.

Radical transgender group says it is FINE to punch women as it compares feminists who question rise of the sex-swap lobby to Nazis

They're moderating comments on that one.

Daily Fail is reporting the latest tweet from TERF puncher.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth

Dear God. What a nasty tosser.

It's not our fault that the granny didn't punch those four thugs, who had been promising violence all over the Internet the entire afternoon, first.

"Sometimes a bitch needs to be slapped"

Reaction to Maria being assaulted.

twitter.com/FemalesFighting/status/911854853202120704

Yup Smarties. You are now responsible, literally, for the genocide of transwomen everywhere. And should be treated with violence.

If you do an advanced search on here for Jazz Jennings, you will see an entire thread devoted to them.

The face of a girl, the body of a woman, the genitals of a prepubescent boy, medicated for life, permanently sterile and almost no chance of a decent sex life.

And yes, Jazz Jennings is depressed.

But that doesn't stop them being called the poster child for everything trans.

Remember, he made that decision when he was 11 years old. Because he wanted to wear a tutu. I googled extensively to try and find evidence of gender dysphoria, but it was only mentioned once in all the information.

And Jazz's doctor was a family member.

I think we have to realise that this has taken off a lot in the US, where medicalisation is big business. Surgery costs an absolute fortune. Whereas here, it is on the NHS.

I'm not sure how you can't be cynical about a doctor who encourages surgery, when that is their livelihood.

So when people say what happens there will eventually happen here, I sincerely hope they are wrong.

Yes Smarties, you are officially an evil TERF bigot now and literally cause suicides.

Good work for a Sunday morning

...but that makes me transphobic or a TERF to even have these concerns, right?

Dear God.

Oh gosh Datun, I've been following Jazz Jennings and I'm deeply troubled that a young child has gone so far to make these changes. It's damaging and very very wrong.

SmartiesHaveTheAnswer

It's a hard G, as in gynaecology. Shortened to AGP. Also sometimes called forced feminisation, cissification, female embodiment fantasy, cross-dreaming.

In terms of children, it's a big issue. Lupron, which is the puberty blocker used, is an anti-cancer drug and is being administered off label.

You can use the websites I've just posted and put Lupron in the search box to find the studies.

It's one thing accommodating children who want to change pronouns and names, it's quite another taking that to the logical conclusion of them being on lifelong hormones, permanently sterile, and have double mastectomies, or penis inversion.

Late transitioning men who have penis inversion have enough penile material to create a facsimile of a vagina (neo vagina) and some sexual sensation.

It's quite another if you start on puberty blockers. Because there's not enough material by the time they're old enough. Their genitals remain those of a prepubescent. See Jazz Jennings.

misscockerspaniel

These are some good websites.

Gendertrender
Feministcurrent
4thwavenow

And not dodgy!

There is usually a search box at the top. You can search on stuff like statistics, surgery, names, etc.

I would then recommend that you click on every link, to find the original source.

Gendertrender particularly, are forensic in their research.

They are highly gender critical, and have no truck with predatory men. But I have yet to see them assert one single thing that they haven't been able to back up with extensive sources and citations.

Their analysis is invaluable, because they have women's rights at the forefront.

MN has been an eye opener for me. I am seeing statistics quoted about the % of children who are said to be trans compared with the number who genuinely are or who subsequently come out as gay, and about the % of trans women who are fully functioning men with autogynephelia (a word I'd never heard of until a few weeks ago). Please can someone tell me where these statistics come from? I've tried Googling (goodness knows what ads I will start receiving) but I haven't found the sources.