14 year old girl raped in broad daylight

Well increasingly this is the feminism board and posters here tend to centre women in our thinking. There are zillions of places that you can go to discuss men and their issues / problems. If you hang around here you will see that many of us are parents to sons, partners to men and have men that we love in our lives. However, on this board and particularly on this thread about the rape of a 14 year old girl, we reserve the right to consider the issue of male violence towards women and not to have to always centre men in those discussions.
So yes, you are derailing.

Again I don't understand the question. What is "this" which you think makes it "easier" to blame women?

Well some people blame women for being drunk, wearing short skirts etc. It may well not be easier to blame women it's just a question that I raised. Another poster said it was sexism, I don't know perhaps it isn't.

And you are constantly at risk of being burgled aren't you? I don't understand your point there.

Is it helpful to always put males in the offender role and women in the victim role

I think you are right, each case is reported individually about individuals. That means that more victims will be female. I'm referring to the assumption that when talking generally sexual violence is a male on female issue because of it being the case most of the time.

This is the post where you put your questions Increasinglymiddleaged

Well assuming that there is no level of sexual abuse that can be acceptable Elendon what about when the perpetrator is in fact a woman?

I can't answer that as I don't understand the question.

Firstly why the theoretical statement about "assuming no level of sexual abuse is acceptable". Why would there be any doubt that it is unacceptable?

Secondly the first part of the question bears no relation to the second.

Are you trying to suggest anyone thinks there is an acceptable level if the perpetrator is female? Who has suggested that ? No one here. The criminal justice system certainly does not.

Is it helpful to always put males in the offender role and women in the victim role

Again I don't understand your question. The victim of a crime is the victim; the person who carries out the crime is the offender.

Had the victim been a boy the reports would have said so. Had the offender been a woman the reports would have said so.

(cf (a)the case of historic abuse recently prosecuted where underage boys were being abused by a flasher heterosexual couple having public sex and enticing underage boys to join in and (b) the women who was charged and convicted as part of the Newcastle grooming gang)

Or does this actually have the effect of making it easier for people to blame female victims?

Again I don't understand the question. What is "this" which you think makes it "easier" to blame women?

I disagree with both you and NoLove stating women and men are constantly at risk. This is a meaningless statement. I am no more constantly at risk of being sexually abused than I am of being burgled.

Sexual crimes happen far more frequently to women than men and by far the majority number of perpetrators , regardless of the sex of the victim, will be men. It is no denying there are male victims to say that the majority of victims will be female and the majority of perpetrators will be male.

Is it actually part of the problem that it is so difficult to discuss?

No it isn't derailing

I've asked - how do you think we can make things better for women?

Your first post said
Let's not forget men also get raped, in fact I heard of an awful, random attack the other day. It might not be as common, but sexual violence happens to both men and women.

Your second post said what about when the perpetrator is in fact a woman?

You are talking about men as victims and claiming by talking about women as victims we are encouraging victim blaming. It's derailing. I am not getting sucked in any more.

I was with you quentin until this derailing shit came up again I too am talking about sexual violence of men against women . I think a minority on the thread have chosen not to actually read what I was saying properly and just jump up about daring to mention men. Just bizarre when actually I was looking for a way to change attitudes towards victims who are predominantly female.

And of course it's not victim blaming to talk about the vile brutal rape of a young girl - where is that from? Victim blaming was brought up by others.

So clearly the attack is shocking partly because it reminds us of constant risk. Not least because only letting men out until 9pm on a curfew wouldn't even have stopped it. Or stopped my best friend being abused by her stepfather as I imagine most rapes are domestic.

So accepting that you think that my idea of making it less about females is tosh and wouldn't help what on earth can be done instead?

My attitude is not at all damaging to victims as I believe everyone should be free to live their lives and go about their business free from fear of rape.
It is not victim blaming to discuss a brutal rape of a girl in broad daylight.
I don't believe men face any more stigma as a rape victim than e.g. a child raped by her father, a drunk woman raped by her date, a woman raped by her husband. Why would you think they would?
No-one said being a rape victim was a solely female thing. But the facts are that most victims are women (85,000 women vs 12,000 men according to the ONS) and the rapists are always male (as rape requires a penis).
Stop trying to derail the thread. We are allowed to talk about sexual violence against women.

My point was about victim blaming and that attitudes like yours are potentially damaging for victims who are in the main female.

I think Quentin and noloveofmine it is actually shocking the attitude that you have to others who actually care enough about the title of the thread/ victims of sexual abuse. It isn't a competition, it is a horrible issue that somehow needs to be eradicated for the sake of victims.

FWIW for the people who sensibly replied, I'm not sure because I have a feeling that many male victims would be in easily marginalised groups so could easily be blamed. It may even be worse.

It always really surprised me that on a thread like this someone will pop up to "what about the men?"
We are talking about a specific incident, where a 14 year old girl was raped by a man. If you want to talk about male rape victims, feel free to start a thread about it

Increasingly, never once in my life have I read an article where a man has been raped and the comments suggest he was asking for it, or questioning why he was out, or say that he's lying, or suggesting that if he was going to wear shorts, what did he expect? Yet under EVERY SINGLE story I read about a woman being raped, you get such comments. So no, it doesn't contribute to victim blaming if you're male, because men are believed and it's never assumed that they want a dick in them.

In my opinoin victim blaming comes about from simple, good old fashioned sexism.

Either way, the question remains, what are MEN going to do about it?

To add, I find a rape in broad daylight against a child more shocking. Not because it's "worse", but because it reminds us that even in broad day light, when most of us feel relatively safe, were not. I would find a murder, assault, bank robbery or almost any other crime, more shocking if committed during the day. It's brazen.

Putting men in the victim role also contributes to victim blaming too. Men rape men in this country. Most of those men who are raped are seen as bringing it on themselves.

What should be stopped and the question that should be asked is why do men insist on sex when consent is an issue.

If even some men cannot control themselves and men being the arbiters of law making cannot control the situation, then the time has come for men to be put onto a curfew so that law abiding citizens can go about their daily business. No man should be allowed out after 9pm. No man should be allowed out unless accompanied by a female unless he wears a badge permitting him to go to school/university/work.

That's what I would do if I was Queen for a day.

No, you are intent on comparing it not me. No level of sexual abuse is acceptable whether against males or females.

I am asking is promoting rape and sexual abuse as something that only happens to females contributing to victim blaming

No males are also at constant risk in all the same scenarios. It may be a lower risk but the only acceptable level of sexual abuse is zero.

And the question I raised has been ignored in favour of arguing whether male abuse is a problem. Just bizarre

No I'm not derailing, I asked a question. My opinion is that no level of sexual abuse is acceptable so of course it must be stopped. My question is whether putting women and females always in the victim role contributes to victim blaming. Sexual violence/ abuse against men and boys is not that rare at all. People who want the same thing being unwilling to discuss wider aspects will not lead to a reduction in sexual violence.

Well assuming that there is no level of sexual abuse that can be acceptable Elendon what about when the perpetrator is in fact a woman? Is it helpful to always put males in the offender role and women in the victim role? Or does this actually have the effect of making it easier for people to blame female victims?

My DP was raped by her husband in very similar circumstances to those you describe, Elendon. (I'm a woman not an invading man - she's from a culture in which being gay is not really accepted and was heavily pressured into the marriage)

To this day, very few people believe her purely because they were married. The amount of "Well you must have done X" and "it must have been so hard for him" she's had is disgusting.

A child being sexually assaulted in her home by someone she looks up to as a carer. A 35 year old woman with her small children in the house is raped by her husband - she refused anal sex as an alternative to penile penetration post a recent, three weeks, forceps delivery. A 75 year old woman found in bed with a broken brush handle in her vagina. Shocked and possibly dying due to severe internal and facial injuries as well.

These have all happened. Shocking I know. Now.

What are men going to do about it?

However, many will question whether women, young or old should be out and about on their own. Especially after attacks like this, in broad daylight.

No they won't, quite clearly women have the right to go wherever they like. And in your case you were safer outside your house than in it .

Let's not forget men also get raped, in fact I heard of an awful, random attack the other day. It might not be as common, but sexual violence happens to both men and women.

No one will ever suggest that men, young and old, be constricted in how they go about their business because that's absurd.

However, many will question whether women, young or old should be out and about on their own. Especially after attacks like this, in broad daylight.

The message seems to be how can we save our women, not how can we educate men that such behaviour is disgusting and abhorrent to our very existence as humans.