14 year old girl raped in broad daylight

Thank you enough a sensible response.

It's not about mentioning frog its about the assumption that victims are always female.

OK - I'll bite Increasingly
It doesn't help women at all if rape is seen as a general crime. It is minimising and ignoring all the power dynamics, hatred and misogyny inbuilt in the crime.
And I have NEVER heard a feminist suggest that we should be careful of assuming that women are predominantly the victims of rape - EVER!

I have to say it enrages me we can't talk about the specific and clear risk women and girls are of male sexual violence without it being derailed. Street harassment, sexual assault, rape and beyond, there is a particular risk of this for women and girls.

And it enrages me that women and girls are abused and raped and are at this risk. I really think you are enraged with the wrong people.

If I'm right, increasinglymiddleaged seems to be saying that because women are blamed for being the victims of sexual assault, if we don't ever mention the fact that women are the majority victims of sexual assault, then they won't be blamed. This is not an argument that really holds up to more than about a nanosecond of consideration.

You can't just pose a random question as if it's cutting-edge intellectual enquiry that we now all need to discuss in detail - it has to have some kind of meaningful hypothesis behind it!

I didn't. I didn't really expect it to cause quite such a hoo haa to be honest. You could have ignored me, but instead I was constantly accused of 'derailing'.

I was merely pondering whether there is a need to be careful about how we see rape against women as feminists. If victim blaming is more likely where the victim is female (shouldn't be out after dark, she had tequila etc) then might it help women if rape is seen in general as a crime potentially against anyone rather than being female-specific? So I don't feel comfortable as a woman as the automatic assumption being that women are the victims.

Some people have understood and made valid points such as any case is specific to the people involved so it will always be case by case anyway. Others have said men can also be blamed as victims.

The most important thing is I really hope we are all on the same side here whether you think I'm talking tosh or not.

Ttbb. None of us would disagree that all children are at risk from (mainly) predatory men ,

I just quoted you where you said that you were shocked!

And me four baffled

In response to many of the comments above, boys are also at risk. They all need better protection including self defence classes at schools and tougher sentencing for rapists.

So you don't think that women victims are disproportionately blamed?

I'm sorry you have lost me completely but refer you to Frogsoup's comment below. Is that what you are saying?

So you think naming the problem makes it worse? And that we should therefore effectively ignore the fact that the vast majority of sexual assault victims are female, and the vast majority of perpetrators male?

I promise I'm more shocked by the rape, I am rather about where you got that from.

Unfortunately there isn't much to laugh about on this subject

I too am baffled.
Me three

Yes, but I have no idea why that should mean that we can't acknowledge the fact that most victims of sexual assault are women. You can't just pose a random question as if it's cutting-edge intellectual enquiry that we now all need to discuss in detail - it has to have some kind of meaningful hypothesis behind it!

I am shocked by the attitude that others only care if they follow the party line...

There is no party line on here - posters are a glorious collection of (mainly women) who discuss, challenge, educate, argue despair and on occasions laugh as we try to analyse our different feminist views on life. There's a lot to be shocked about but I would suggest that being shocked at posters on here rather than at the rape of a 14 year old girl which is the subject of this thread shows where your particular priorities lie.

So you don't think that women victims are disproportionately blamed?

frogsoup

So you think naming the problem makes it worse?

Thank you Frog- far more succinctly put than my 3 paragraphs. I too am baffled.

It's the idea that victim blaming is sexist that other posters have said they believe is the case. Nowhere have I said I'm right, it was a question.

Women and girls are harassed, sexually assaulted, raped and murdered in any kind of situation, by men and boys known and unknown, regularly. Pedantry over semantics on this issue is quite irksome

I did not say they weren't. "Constantly" is still the wrong word.

But my main point was to ask whether seeing this as an issue for women makes it worse for women and violence against women

Are you trying to say this should be seen as an issue of male violence because some the victims will be male? And to not acknowledge that is doing a disservice to male victims?

Or are you trying to say there are female perpetrators too and this should be recognised too?

In either case I'm struggling to see what point you are making. The vast majority of perpetrators of sexual violence are male and the majority of victims are female. How does acknowledging this make it worse for women?

"whether seeing this as an issue for women makes it worse for women and violence against women."

So you think naming the problem makes it worse? And that we should therefore effectively ignore the fact that the vast majority of sexual assault victims are female, and the vast majority of perpetrators male?

I find this a completely baffling argument, and nothing you have said gives me any clue as to why you might think this. It's not a question of a party line, it's more that you are doing nothing to clarify a very muddy and tendentious line of thinking.

Why are our attitudes "shocking" and why are you insinuating I don't "care enough" about the issue highlighted in this thread (which I started)?

I have never said that you don't care about it. I am shocked by the attitude that others only care if they follow the party line and agree with you exactly.

The problem with MN is you end up opposing people when if we actually talked we would find that we could explain ourselves better and actually agreed on 95%+/ reach consensus on the rest.

The enemies here are the vile rapists not other posters on this thread

There are zillions of places that you can go to discuss men and their issues / problems.

But my main point was to ask whether seeing this as an issue for women makes it worse for women and violence against women. That isn't derailing at all it is a valid question. You can say 'No that's not the case because.....' but it feels to me on this thread that there is a unwritten code of conduct on this subject that isn't allowed to be challenged. As a woman and a feminist that worries me. Free speech and challenging attitudes is vital.

And you are constantly at risk of being burgled aren't you? I don't understand your point there

Only if you think every one is "constantly" at risk of every single crime which is capable of being perpetrated against them- thus "contantly" is meaningless.