Worried I'm missing opportunities to 'teach' my 3 DDs feminism

Wow, this has turned into another SAHMs v Working mums thread

That's why I've tried to disengage with it. Tying in being 'allowed' to be a feminist if you fit a certain social/economic criteria isn't great to read.

conserve absolutely.

OP, I think you're probably doing a great job.

*The fact you are even thinking about it shows you care which is what counts!

Very much so and will hugely help your daughters WomanNoCis. I think presenting them with an array of women who excel in all sorts of fields could help as well, especially if prompted by their interests. Challenge sexism, sexist stereotyping, ask them to question it, I think there are lots of ways feminism can be introduced to them.

As for SAHD, I think that would be great, and explicitly feminist

So in your brand of feminism women are not allowed to stay at home with kids but men are? And that's feminist?

Riiiight

Wow, this has turned into another SAHMs v Working mums thread. Super.

OP, there are some amazing podcasts made by women who aim to raise everyone up rather than raise themselves up while pushing everyone else down. I would advise having a listen and using some of their ideas. Teach your DDs to respect other women's choices, and open doors rather than slamming them shut. The fact you are even thinking about it shows you care which is what counts!

For working mothers I think childcare arrangements are also something that needs thinking about. We home schooled two of ours, they never went to a nursery and missed 4 years of school. They were very puzzled when they started school with the idea that boys do this and girls do that, you play with girls if you are a girl, you play with your own age group. They had never experienced any of that with home ed kids and I wonder how many children pick up these ideas from carers or other children?

Wunderkind77 I think your posts are slightly derailing, unhelpful and incorrect. Many women in STEM care about women's representation in politics, many women in politics care about women's representation in STEM, many women care about all sorts of issues they're not directly contributing to the changing of. You are quite dismissive of vital work raising children, in a sense this shows the undervaluing of work because it was associated with women. There are so many important feminist issues. The OP is asking about how to introduce her daughters to feminism which I think is vital to do.

Representation in media, politics, STEM, requires women to be working in these fields, not sitting at home raising children and running house.

@Famousfolk

Yes, I think feminism is strongly tied to whether a woman works or not.

As for SAHD, I think that would be great, and explicitly feminist - showing a much-needed example of reversing the gender roles that are apparent in our society.

I was brought up by a SAHM who took her husband's name. For me it modelled what I DIDN'T want in my own life, so I made different decisions.

Wunderkind, is it fair to say that feminism for you is all about whether someone works or not? Nothing else? The complex ongoing conversation and debate about women, so-called gender roles, representation in the media, politics, STEM, equality of all kinds etc etc etc is all reduced to 'sorry, you don't work right now, so you CANNOT be a feminist?'

You haven't addressed my point about stay at home fathers. Also, what about women who can't work, for whatever reason. Can they still be feminists?

What about feminist activists who stay at home with their children - not feminists either?

Women who are stay at home parents but manage to do a few hours low-paid work at home? Allowed into your narrow definition or not?

I'm trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt, that you mean well, but some of your comments - If you don't mind me asking: in what ways are you a feminist? - are a little trying.

There is a debate to be had about why women are often expected to sacrifice their careers whilst the man's takes precedence after a child is born but I'm not sure it's completely relevant here. Suggesting some would be "better examples of feminism" than others is unhelpful in my opinion. It's like saying a woman who puts on lots of makeup isn't as good as an example of feminism as one who doesn't. WomanNoCis asked if her daughters can be introduced to feminism with her specific family set up. As many have said, they certainly can, and there have been some excellent suggestions as to how to go about this I think.

EenyMeenyMo that's a good point regarding your son picking up gender roles. I've read on here of posters whose children have taken in sexist nonsense and start viewing roles in a gendered way no matter what their set up at home. Programmes such as "No More Boys and Girls" also show that; we're bombarded with such a young age by artificially imposed "gender" and pushed towards the roles deemed appropriate for our sex that this often overrides what happens with parents anyway, which is why it's all the more important for parents to combat this and discuss the issues with their children no matter what their set up.

No great example of feminism to have the father avoid high paid job to be more involved with the family. How would children understand financial parity and sharing all if there simply isn't enough money to around and every spend results in argument and blame?

Um. You're kind of proving my point. If both parents worked, it's a lot more likely that there would be financial parity, and more money to go around.

No great example of feminism in a single working mother forced into working long hours whilst her children are left being cared for by other very low paid women in a crowded nursery.

I think it would be a much better example of feminism for a mother to work and to have children in nursery. As for low-paid nursery staff, I think they should unionise and demand better wages.

I think its all about challenging preconceptions and prejudices they pick up- i'm a worm with a SAHD but DS still picks up crap about gender roles.
I think you need to explain why being a Sahm works for you - and also why it works for their dad. I think you also have to be honest about the downside- otherwise it looks like an ideal job - you don't work and have a nice life style - i do know girls who think (at the extreme) this is ideal- I know a 14 year old whose ambition is to be a footballers wife - how do you counter this? How do you convey to your daughters that qualifications matter if you don't use them? I struggle with DS who sees that DP has a very nice life compared to me working full time so why can't he be like DP- we are lucky in that most of the role models DS sees are the reverse.

I'm a SAHM and a feminist. If you want to judge everyone's worth by a very simple 'how much do they earn?' formula like a good little capitalist then knock yourself out but you can leave me the fuck out of it.

Wunderkind, as a lifelong feminist - even when I was a stay at home parent oddly, as I didn't suddenly 'stop' being a feminist - I disagree entirely with you.

But you are completely entitled to your opinion, so there we go.

Stay at home mothers who are content, who are treated as equal for the work they do and who made their choices without pressure are a brilliant example of working feminism. You don't need shoulder pads to be successful. You don't need to become the same as a man to be equal. Equality isn't about being the same - it's about justice and each person having their needs met and their wishes respected.
No great example of feminism in a single working mother forced into working long hours whilst her children are left being cared for by other very low paid women in a crowded nursery.
No great example of feminism in the children being raised by a single parent - how would the children ever see or experience an equal relationship?
No great example of feminism to have the father avoid high paid job to be more involved with the family. How would children understand financial parity and sharing all if there simply isn't enough money to around and every spend results in argument and blame?
Plenty of true feminists are at home with their children.

Are you seriously putting forward the view that a stay at home parent cannot be a feminist?

Yes. A SAHM living according to traditional stereotypes is not modelling feminism. Reversing it would be cool!

For me it is really important not to assume one parent takes one role, so eg I won't assume a mum does nursery drop off when talking to my daughter about her friends, I'll say 'mummy or daddy '. It takes a bit of conscious thought initially but as soon as you reprogram yourself it's natural.

And not calling all animals/toys 'he' but using a mix of he and she.

This goes for service people, doctors, burglars, whatever person the child is interested in and taking about, don't assume a gender. I think this is really powerful.

Refer to your volunteering as 'work'.

Make up stories where the mummy is at work and the daddy looks after children.

Explain that in some families the daddy works, in others both work, and in others the mummy works. No need to get all heavy, just mention these things in passing.

Discuss what job your DDs might have when older in the same way you would with a DS, using the same examples.

When talking about house things explicitly say that mummy and daddy are both in charge. Don't talk about how daddy works hard to earn money for you so and mummy is so naughty spending it.

I'm afraid it's going to be tricky to "model" feminism when you're a SAHM

Are you seriously putting forward the view that a stay at home parent cannot be a feminist? Seriously? And the little head tilt at the end? Where do stay at home dads come into it? Are they all automatically not feminists either? Or do they get to automatically 'be one' because they don't work outside the home? But women can't?

OP, I know plenty of stay at home parents who are fabulous feminist role models. As some helpful posters have commented, feminism can be taught in all kinds of ways and your attitude to public figures, what you say to your children about women's rights and roles throughout history and now is vital.

Don't think for one moment that a stay at home mother cannot be a feminist. Your daughters must learn that everyone can be and that they- and you - can own whatever choices they make. It sounds as though you're alert to the issues, just trust yourself.

Agree with Grannytomine. I am also a SAHM with two young DDs. I don't work at the moment because logistically it's difficult. Once the youngest starts primary, I will be looking to get back into work. I do however volunteer with the local school - go in and read with the children, take them to the village library and also help out on the PTA committee re organising events etc.

Being feminst isn't defined by whos surname you have for some women it is important to keep their own surname which probably is their fathers so you could argue the toss about that forever anyway your family set up if done well should have a positive effect on your Dds.

I have just bought a book called Dear Ijewele by Chimamanda Ngozi Adiche (she is a young Nigerian writer). It's a very short book - a collection of letters she has written for a friend's baby daughter about feminism/being a feminist.

OP I don't think being a SAHM is a problem, I worked outside the home so not a decision I made/was able to make, but in my opinion it is perfectly valid.

Surnames again it doesn't strike me as the biggest issue going. I took my husband's name, it was convenient, but what does it mean? It was the surname of the man who owned my husband's great, great grandmother and his great grandfather was born a slave. We don't know the nature of the relationship, was she raped, abused or was it love? Well he didn't give her or her child their freedom so that tells us something but still we use his name.

I can only say that with 4 children, both sexes, I was happy for the boys to dress up as princesses and the girl to be a soldier/knight or whatever. I don't do girly in clothes/make up/jewellery and neither does she, we don't do macho for the boys. I think maybe because she had 3 brothers my DD tended to play "boys" games with boys and it never occurred to her that it was a problem. Similarly when it came to A levels and degree no one questioned her decision to study maths as her main love and physics as her second. It would have been just as acceptable if she had decided study beauty or child care or anything else.

I never set out to do lessons in feminism or equality but if anyone questioned their decisions e.g. son in a Disney princess dress, son with hair almost to his waist daughter in combat gear in cadets, then they got all my support to be whoever they want to be. The worst challenge we had was not with DD but one of her brothers when he decided to study nursing. Amazing how many people still think doctors are men and nurses are women even careers advisors in school e.g. "You are a bright boy, do medicine not nursing." As if all nurses are thick!

I would also challenge the idea that only paid work gives you satisfaction/status. Since retiring I have found the voluntary work I do gives me more satisfaction than my career ever did.

Nothing wrong at all with being a SAHM of course, but do you do anything away from the family? Volunteering, local campaign groups, etc? If not it might be worth thinking about - not just for your own interest and the contribution you can make, but also so that your daughters see you with your own life, engaging in the wider world.