What causes women to become trans activists?

I do suspect that the whole transwomen-vs-feminists battle is being revved up by people who are not in either camp but see an advantage to themselves in perpetuating the concept

Yes, I agree. It's an MRA magnet.

But there are many men who happily adopt the label 'trans', despite any ensuing negativity. Autogynephiles for one. And many transactivists.

Transpeople are oppressed in the sense that many of them will have been punished (including physical assault) for not conforming to the gender roles expected of their biologically sexed bodies. They do face discrimination, mockery, verbal and physical abuse etc. Gender dysphoria is a thing, after all.
But ciswomen, BAME people, poor people, disabled people, lesbian and gay cispeople: they also suffer from discrimination, mockery, verbal/physical abuse. You don't, on the whole, get bitter wars between BAME people and disabled people over who has it worse - though there are always going to be individuals who like to play Oppression Bingo.
Like I said earlier, I do suspect that the whole transwomen-vs-feminists battle is being revved up by people who are not in either camp but see an advantage to themselves in perpetuating the concept. I've seen incidents of hyperbolic, spiteful nonsense from some feminists as well as awful behaviour from transwomen/supporters of transwomen.

Transitioning is a form of Teflon coating that these girls think will protect them from objectification.

I definitely think this could be a factor with some Datun. Girls' schools tend to be free of stereotyping and limits of "gender" from what I've experienced, and I was under the impression this school was no different, so I think it has to be more than that leading to this happening. I think they see as I have that you may be relatively "free" at school but nothing can stop the harassment which most girls experience from a young age and risk of male sexual violence we all face, so this becomes a way they might feel they're taking control of that and avoiding it. Apparently there are some of these girls who are "identifying as boys" and being referred to as such now going out with girls from the school too, but they're to be considered heterosexual relationships...

Girl you have to step your Pussy up

How does one do this exactly?

I'm confused.

Also the fact that the fuckwits manage to convince themselves that men can become women

I think educational standards have become dumbed down and postmodern shite has taken over a lot of campuses

Two comments (before the idiot jumped in) that I agree with.

Educational standards have become so dumbed down that young people can convince themselves that men can become women or there are 57 varieties of baked beans genders or many different sexes, blah, blah, blah, all of which have been said to me. Hell, I'd be glad if it was postmodernism they were learning. It's more likely to be doing assessments about how a reading or lecture or practical activity makes them 'feel'. We are talking those destined for careers dealing with trans people btw, not abstract Arts degrees or similar.

Oh my god I'm just watching Ru Paul, who I normally think gets it and I don't have a problem with when they do a lip sync to this song, I'm literally speechless.

Alright now!
All you biological females, who used to have the upper hand
It ain't like that no more honey it's a got real tough up in here.
You got your Trisexual
You got your Bisexual
You got your Inner Sexual
Girl you have to step your Pussy up!

If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up, girl step it up!

Step it up!
(And she come out there wearings some 300 dollar boots)

Yeah girl!
All you biological females out there,
It ain't same as it used to be,
You ain't got the upper hand.
Uh-uh

Look Here!
You got your trisexual
You got your inner sexual
You got your intellectual sexual
Girl goin' have to step your Pussy up!

WOW!

If you ain't goin' step inside this,
Then you'd better drop a sign, then!
If you ain't goin' step inside this,
Then you'd better drop a sign, then!
If you ain't goin' step inside this,
Then you'd better drop a sign, then!
If you ain't goin' step inside this,
Then you'd better drop a sign, then!
Girl you have to step your pussy up!

Step it up

If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up!
If you're trying to be somebody,
Girl you better step it up, girl step it up!

Go step it up!

Girl you have to step your pussy up!

I'm sure you're right NoLove. Transitioning is a form of Teflon coating that these girls think will protect them from objectification.

There might also be some internalised homophobia there. If I identify as a man, a man won't harass me, because otherwise he'll be called gay.

I'd be interested to know whether them transitioning leads them to then start hanging out with a peer group made up of men.

I am MichelGarnier although the school in question is a different one quite near mine - although it's also an all girls school which is part of what baffles me about it (thankfully this hasn't actually happened at my school yet although the Feminist Society is very much along the "centring trans women" route). I also find school a very liberating place to be, relatively free of gender stereotypes and it's great to be able to be educated surrounded by so many great girls. I do understand what you mean and find it quite a shame the school this is happening at aren't questioning why some girls there are wanting to "identify as boys" and don't feel comfortable expressing themselves in such a way whilst "being" girls, it strikes me as regressive and the opposite of what a girls' school should be doing.

I think (stereotypically male) aggression is still linked with strength.

I agree with that. On a possibly related note, I was also wondering if this could be a factor in why some women are trans activists - they've seen the online abuse directed at those described as "TERFs" and don't want to be on the end of it, see violence such as the attack at Hyde Park Corner and fear being recipients of it, so think it's safer to ally themselves with those perpetrating such attacks. It'll then not happen to them, they're regularly "checking their cis privilege" and "centring trans people", they'd not be bigots who warrant such online abuse/being hounded/violence.

Aren't you at an all girls NoLove? I would have thought the teachers would/should be questioning why the girls don't feel able to express themselves in what is supposed to be a safe and positive environment for young women. Obviously outside school hours they are likely to experience the harassment etc which makes them not want to be a woman, but at that age I know I found my (girls) school quite absorbing/encompassing and enough to counteract that. Or perhaps the teachers do question it privately but feel they can't say anything. That's really not worded well, but do you sort of get what I'm trying to say?

I don't know, NoLove. I remember at Uni, a lesbian friend of mine, really did not like men very much. No surprise, she had suffered abuse. Yet she wanted to join the army, really wanted to face combat. I went with her to talk to the recruitment office. It made me cringe because I saw the army as a somewhat hostile place for women. However I did not say anything. I think (stereotypically male) aggression is still linked with strength.

I think they are sadly disillusioned there.

So do I, I was just wondering why they're doing it (it's not something you're allowed to question to those who report on it...). A reasonable number are, apparently.

I wonder if identifying as male makes those who are doing it feel they could get out of the street harassment, threats of sexual assault etc which are commonplace for girls.

I think they are sadly disillusioned there.

Does anyone know anything about how transmen are getting on in the "male world"?

Part of the problem when there is too much conflict between apparently 'opposing' sides.

I've posted on other threads about a number of girls at a girls' school I have a couple of friends at now "identifying as boys". Everyone, including teachers, is at pains to ensure they refer to them as such. I think it's been discussed on here before but it strikes me as an attempt to "identify out of oppression" if that makes sense; the school itself should be freeing pupils from expectation of gendered behaviour and interests so I wonder if identifying as male makes those who are doing it feel they could get out of the street harassment, threats of sexual assault etc which are commonplace for girls. Sorry if this is an unrelated tangent.

This does not undermine the fact that biological females do not need safe spaces or the ownership of their own biological identity.

I meant they do need safe spaces and ownership of biological identity. Badly worded.

BertrandRussell

Nope. Funny that.

Does anyone know anything about how transmen are getting on in the "male world"?

There is common ground amongst both causes, though. Namely that of sexual stereotypes being too restrictive. If people don't fit, for whatever reason, they are at a disadvantage in patriarchal society. Also if people express stereotypically female characteristics they are devalued in patriarchal society.

The thing is, it is the competitive slant to this whole issue, what causes the conflict. Who is the most persecuted or oppressed? Competing for safe spaces. Competing for the loudest voice. Competing for the identity of 'woman'.

This does not undermine the fact that biological females do not need safe spaces or the ownership of their own biological identity.

What really what should be tackled is patriarchal oppression. When taking a stance to not identify with the patriarchal oppressors moves focus to fights and competition between the groups that suffer oppression, it is sad.

BitterLittlePoster

I'm not surprised by your post. Statistically trans people have a whopping 87% risk of comorbid mental health issues, the highest of which is narcissism.

It's no coincidence that there are thousands of memes out there saying that if you're talking to a trans person, all you will ever talk about is them being trans.

SophoclesTheFox and spaghetti.

As far as I'm aware that is the definition of oppression. There has to be a material gain for the oppressor. Otherwise what's the point?

It would be fruitless oppressing women if no one gained from it. Likewise transpeople. No one gains. They're not oppressed. They confuse discrimination and prejudice with oppression.

If they have a high risk of comorbid mental health issues, are suicidally unstable, and very narcissistic, it's not surprising that people will react accordingly. And I'm not talking about genuine transphobia, shouting fucking tranny in the street, that's hateful.

Not wanting to talk endlessly to a narcissistic man isn't.

"Life generally is easier as a non-trans person (unless you're Caitlyn Jenner) and that's where all the shouts of cis privilege come from. You don't have to accept the transactivist gospel to understand that."

How is it possible to measure transphobia against misogyny? How does anyone know that life is harder for MTT than it is for women?

I'm in a vegan feminist group on Facebook that's aaaaaall about the intersectionality and it's frightening how much self flagellation goes on, I have wondered sometimes if it's bordering on sexual.

People tearing themselves and each other to shreds about literally nothing.

We had a woman post the other day saying she had seen a to show that she really liked but was worried there might be something 'problematic' in it that she wasn't seeing and could people come on and tell her if she should like it or not

They are ALL about not saying things about women's bodies so you have to say pregnant person etc, when I point out that surely in a vegan group people could see it was sex and not gender, is a female cow kept in the conditions she's in because her she identifies as female or because of her actual biological sex? They come at me with pitch forks.

I try to point out that to be able to transcend your sex and identify as something else is actually an incredibly privileged position and means no one is trying to exploit you for your biological functions, and for millions of women across the world they don't have the luxury to question their gender, they just don't get it.

It ends up with no one able to say anything in fear of not including someone, so you end up not saying anything and just half nodding and hoping no one notices you.
It's really frightening actually because these are smart women who have switched off their critical thinking.

FruitCider

That's exactly it Fauchelevent. They accept it seems unquestioningly these statistics because to query them would be "transphobic" or "cis privilege" so they must be completely accepted, as must the notion not using preferred pronouns is "actual violence". Soon enough "trans women must be centred in feminism" has been absorbed so greatly that it's almost all you can talk about, no discussion possible without adding "but it's worse for trans people", issues such as abortion rights and periods having to be discussed without stipulating they're particularly relevant to women, being seen to be a "good cis ally" more important than real feminism...it's infuriating. I also see these allies sharing every post about apparent slights on trans people but being far less vocal about, say, male violence. From my point of view I also worry about it because that's the attitude from most in the Feminist Society at my school, which girls from quite young years can attend, so it worries me young girls could potentially be almost indoctrinated with this.

nolove exactly. The statistics they trot out are horrifying - and parroted so often (backed up by questionable articles) that -since you came here to do good, of couuurse you want to rally on their side. And you came here to do good, so you want to be the best "oppressive cis person" you can, and it involved the appropriate fawning and self-flagellation, a lot of it performative so everyone knows and sees you're being a good ally and furthering the cause because if you aren't you're complicit in lots of murders.

And if you say something solely like
"I support women"
someone will be along right away to say "And don't forget to support your SISTERS not just your cis-ters!!"

If you mention vaginas "but don't forget, not all women have vaginas!!"