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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What causes women to become trans activists?

244 replies

TheChampagneGalop · 14/09/2017 18:24

I mean the type of activists that appeared to disrupt the recent meeting about gender in London.

From what I've read about this incident in Speaker's corner there were more women than men protesting and harassing women trying to go to that meeting.
I watched the video and the male violence was of course disturbing and alarming (and criminal!), but the mindless mantra chants from the women about terfs also disturbed me.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 15/09/2017 14:30

What I don't understand is how we got here so quickly. We've been working for years to get some organizations to let us be "Ms" but or seems to have taken 5 minutes to completely turn around thinking on gender. Cui bono?

Datun · 15/09/2017 14:21

SylviaPoe

I agree it's lack of dissent. But it's also the opinion that identity trumps reality. Without consideration to the implications.

Their analysis of the situation is flawed, as it leads to actions which defy reality.

SylviaPoe · 15/09/2017 14:18

What it is is a lack of dissent.

SylviaPoe · 15/09/2017 14:17

How is it a lack of critical thought?

You don't need critical thought to know that someone is not seven, a woman or six foot five. It's obvious they're not.

Datun · 15/09/2017 14:05

Today 13:43 MichelGarnier

Yes Sylvia, also worth remembering that college students these days are very aware of technology and the internet. They know the tactic of "get someone racist/sexist/homophobic/generally stupid to say something stupid/offensive on camera which people relied on in the past/probably still do with some older people.

But that's the point, isn't it? Someone truly feels they must confirm that a man is a 5 foot four Asian woman, on film. Because they're so worried they might say something wrong.

That's a complete absence of critical thought.

OlennasWimple · 15/09/2017 13:57

Which is why it makes no sense that "cis" (sic) women oppress transwomen, because, well - they don't have anything we want, so what would be the point?

Ah, but for many TRAs transwomen are better women who are going to steal our menfolk, so we have to keep transwomen oppressed so that doesn't happen. Hence us having to "step our pussy up" in order to compete with the neovaginas and continue to attract male sexual partners.

Hmm
SylviaPoe · 15/09/2017 13:46

I've advised my university aged teen to do the same. Be noncommittal about the whole thing. Don't raise your head above the parapet.

MichelGarnier · 15/09/2017 13:43

Yes Sylvia, also worth remembering that college students these days are very aware of technology and the internet. They know the tactic of "get someone racist/sexist/homophobic/generally stupid to say something stupid/offensive on camera which people relied on in the past/probably still do with some older people.

BigDeskBob · 15/09/2017 13:41

"I'm not for one second suggesting that women are not punished for not performing their assigned gender roles. Transpeople suffer, women suffer - the common ground is male supremacy and male privilege."

But which gender roles are MTT punished for not performing?

And how are MTT not a part of male supremacy and male privilege?

SylviaPoe · 15/09/2017 13:28

It isn't obvious to me that is what is going on in that video.

On a campus, most people are just going to keep their heads down. It's not worth challenging this kind of stuff if you're going to get into trouble.

None of those young people necessarily believe it. What they're saying in the video is that they're not going to challenge someone over it.

TheWeeWitch · 15/09/2017 13:24

I agree that the presenter is a knob and the issues, as presented, are simplistic. The value in it is in watching the precious flowers (and I don't mean the blossoms) have their bubbles burst.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 15/09/2017 13:22

I'm in favour of gender-neutral toilets too. One toilet for biological females & one for biological males, with gender being irrelevant.

Sex-neutral toilets, no.

ReanimatedSGB · 15/09/2017 13:21

I do also find the Rachel Dolezal business quite interesting, when you consider it alongside issues around gender and gender identity.

Because, a lot of the time, really, it doesn't matter what sex a person is or what their ethnic background is. Neither of these things affect a person's ability to drive a bus/fix a computer/pull pints/stack shelves/walk in the park/sit at the next table to you in a cafe. You don't need to know the sex/ethnicity of the person on the other end of the phone when you're renewing your car insurance or making a dental appointment.

In a lot of ways, you don't need to know a person's biological sex unless you're about to have sex, or particularly reproductive sex with them. But the main reason we can't just stop worrying about sex and gender altogether and let everyone just get on with being that they want is... male violence.

ReanimatedSGB · 15/09/2017 13:15

Not totally convinced by that video, though. I think the presenter's a dick. Also, I am in favour of gender-neutral toilets. As long as that doesn't mean: men's toilets for men and unisex toilets for... 'not-men' which does seem to have happened at least once.

ReanimatedSGB · 15/09/2017 13:11

I'm not for one second suggesting that women are not punished for not performing their assigned gender roles. Transpeople suffer, women suffer - the common ground is male supremacy and male privilege.

TheWeeWitch · 15/09/2017 13:06

Aren't they!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/09/2017 13:05

Wee Witch - that video is worth watching for the gorgeous blossom trees in the background. They are stunning.

TheWeeWitch · 15/09/2017 12:58

I know that this smarmy guy is from the FPIW (they are all about "traditional families"), but really try to ignore that and watch the "wokeness" of these millennials crumble before your very eyes -

Datun · 15/09/2017 12:54

If transwomen started to adopt the roles of the opposite sex, I for one would be delighted. Stupefied, but delighted.

NoLoveofMine · 15/09/2017 12:42

Actually, I thought this was women - at least it has been my experience.

Quite, as well as being attacked frequently for being biologically female.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/09/2017 12:39

"Transpeople are oppressed in the sense that many of them will have been punished (including physical assault) for not conforming to the gender roles expected of their biologically sexed bodies"

Actually, I thought this was women - at least it has been my experience.

HornyTortoise · 15/09/2017 12:36

A mix of things really.

Some of these women simply have not thought things through properly and (not unlikely myself a year ago) they genuinely believe that transgender means the same as transsexual...not realizing that the movement has been taken over by a bunch of narcissistic misogynistic wankers.

Some of them will be scared that airing their true views will earn them the same treatment as the woman who took the beating. Rabid support will grant them safety, so to speak.

Some genuinely believe in 'the cause'. Actually believe that men are more discriminated against than women, and that these transwomen need protection from feminists. Who see the whole thing as no different than gay people fighting for their rights. Not seeming to link the dots to realize that the trans movement is homophobic...and that sexuality in itself is 'transphobic' :S Unwilling to read the numerous accounts of lesbians who have been pressured into sex with male bodied people as its 'transphobic' to say no. Or unwilling to care until it affects males on such a scale (which is unlikely to ever happen as female people don't tend to believe they are entitled to sex with anyone..and I can't see many trying to pressure male people)

Most of the above, will eventually have a moment where they do stop to think a little deeper, and thats usually when one turns gender critical.

Being GC is made out to be some horrific crime, but the huge majority of people I know who are GC would stand alongside transgender people in fighting for their own spaces and such. Just they do not agree that females should be thrown under the bus in the manner that TAs are fighting for right now. And this is why the threats of violence/rape and actual carrying out of these acts happens. TAs tend to be total misogynists, who are obviously not going to be impressed by women standing up for themselves. 'Genuine transsexual people' are just as scared of these violent men as females are, and as such stay well away from anything to do with the whole movement, or are threatened in the same manner themselves.

This in turn, makes it appear that trans as a group are violent bullies. Each incident makes more people wake up. Which makes TAs more violent..and so the cycle continues.

Its all so sad really. Both females and transsexual people are being thrown under the bus...and so many still don't see this. Self identification is bad news for both females and 'normal trans' alike. The only people it will benefit are predators. Genuinely think that by the time this understanding is 'got' by enough people, we will be to far down the rabbit hole to turn back. And thats fucking terrifying.

Probably waffling a bit now, but this topic is so depressing. It really upsets me how I did not see how anti-female and homophobic the whole thing was until fairly recently, and how I probably indirectly joined in with the silencing of lesbians and such...

QuentinSummers · 15/09/2017 12:30

What fauch said. I think maybe if people are starting to question the dogma they become ultra on the surface to cover up the questioning.
I'm not surprised about the violence on Wednesday, now we are starting to see more gender crit material in the media it becomes more important to shut the debate down.

BigDeskBob · 15/09/2017 12:25

"Transpeople are oppressed in the sense that many of them will have been punished (including physical assault) for not conforming to the gender roles expected of their biologically sexed bodies."

I can see MTT being abused and ridiculed because of how the look - its much more difficult for a man to walk around wearing a summer dress and high heels than it is for a women in the same outfit. Indeed a women could wear many men's clothing without comment.

But are MTT really oppressed for not conforming to gender roles?

NoLoveofMine · 15/09/2017 12:17

As far as I can tell they get a lot of positive reactions and being fawned over (those who simply declare they're "trans" and "identify as women"). They get to be held up as admirable whilst also dictating to women and girls, and accusing anyone who objects of being a bigot who's being literally violent and oppressing them.