What causes women to become trans activists?

tinsel Cis privilege? What's privileged about being 'cis'? Serious question. Not a statement.

Could you maybe say which particular bits you think are anti-transgender, woman, and we could try and explain a bit how people arrive at those views? If it's not something you've seen or read about before, I can see how some of it might seem at first glance to be off-putting or impenetrable, but it's all pretty easily explained. Perhaps the first thing to understand is that the view here is pro womans rights, rather than being anti-trans rights - the problem being that they are frequently in conflict.

Is MTT male transgender? So many acronyms. I don't like 'cis'- why not 'woman'? I don't see the point in a prefix. Who is asking for a prefix please?

sentiment what are the seminal texts please?
All this is new to me - lurking for a few days so trying to understand the points being raised but also believing that there must be a way to allow transgender live their lives. Without violence in any 'side'. Im finding some of the comments in the feminist chat etc to be quite anti-transgender, which I'm struggling to understand (honestly, I'm not being goady, but trying to understand different points of view). I'm wondering if the seminal texts you refer to would be helpful in providing some simple explanations?

TinselTwins, yeah, I can see that happening, too. Mind you, there have previously been alliances between anti-porn feminists and religious rightwingers... While the biggest problem in the world is male violence, the biggest problem in progressive politics is self-righteous fuckwits.

In real life amongst my acquaintances who are female trans activists: because they 've long believed prolific feminist speakers to be white centric and BAM exclusionary, So theres a "common enemy" aspect to them supporting trans activism (which is also white privilidge dominated but they seem to overlook that.....) CIS privilege is on a par with white privilege in their eyes

Realistically, Gender critical feminist have very little political power. How many women on here have written to their MPs about their concerns about self identification - and the response (in a world where rapists are placed into women's prisons at their own request) is to make it easier for men to identify as women.

Those who criticise and attack women for being gender critical arent doing it to protect MTT rights, they are punishing women for not performing gender roles. Women are supposed to be everyone's mother, to look after others and put themselves last.

Sorry trans women not trans men - I think. I get confused.

Also female women should be allowed to own their own biological identity. If they identify as a woman in conjunction with their biological sex (not person or ciswoman) this should be allowed.

I suppose feminists come into it when they object to trans encroachment upon safe women only spaces. However some trans men are also aggressive males. There has been aggression towards women from the trans community - with this very debate. So it is no surprise vulnerable women, who have been abused by men in the past, still feel threatened by them

Yes, trans people need to be allowed places of safety. Yet that should not encroach on safe places for vulnerable women.

Why is male on male violence women's problem to sort out? Why does this mean that women can't meet to discuss gender and the damage it does to women?

Well precisely. Social media is alive today justifying violence towards feminists because claiming men are men leads directly to their murder.

I'm merely pointing out the flaw in their own illogical argument. Using their logic.

Why is male on male violence women's problem to sort out? Why does this mean that women can't meet to discuss gender and the damage it does to women?

Isn't that the point of the thread - why is it with all if the violence directed at MTT, do mttt and their supporters chose to direct their anger at women?

I'm agreeing that it is not feminists or gender critical discussion that is killing transwomen, but violent cismen.
Here's a reasonably reputablelink regarding the murder of transwomen by cismen.

ponderingprobably

No, I realise that. It was in answer to ReanimatedSGB assertion that being men is what gets them killed, and transactivists assertion that not being called women gets them killed.

Just pointing out the contradiction.

I've never understood the thinking behind blaming feminists.

(Obviously, I realise they are killed because some men are violent bastards).

Datun No, the murderers, who have access to them, is what is killing them.

Not feminists, not dressing in any way whatsoever. Dressing in any particular way does not mean a person is encouraging murderers to kill them.

My DS goes to university in a few weeks and we were looking at the student reps at his college.

The women's officer describes herself as representing 'non binary and anyone self identifying as female'.

Then is then some general talk about seminars on transphobia.

ReanimatedSGB

If transwomen are being murdered because a punter finds a penis where he expected a vagina, why is the constant refrain that it is feminists who are contributing to the deaths of transwomen because we insist they are men.

The very act of pretending they are women is what is getting them killed.

I don't much like the talk of 'enemies.' As a society we have to all work together.

But if there is an 'enemy' it is violent men, that includes all violent men, regardless of whether they identify as cis, some kind of trans or just men.

Men who are trans identified are no more or less an 'enemy' than any other man.

"And transwomen do get murdered. Again, by cismen"

Do you have any figures?

And transwomen do get murdered. Again, by cismen. When it happens, the defence is often that the cisman was so horrified by discovering he was engaging with a transwoman rather than a ciswoman that he murdered the transwoman - poor man, not his fault. This is in no way to dismiss or ignore the number of ciswomen murdered by men for such unacceptable things as 'nagging' or leaving an abusive relationship. It's just reiterating the point that women and transpeople suffer from abuse, discrimination and other harms because of male supremacy and male violence, so we have a common enemy and shouldn't be enemies.

Bigdeskbob - FFS any men who are percieved as 'gay/effeminate' (ie not performing the proper masculine role, whether they identify as gay or trans) frequently get beaten up and bullied by men. Most of the transwomen I know (who tend not to be part of this cult mentality, just people getting on with their lives) have a story or two about being called a fag or a tranny, spat at, attacked etc.

It's also about wanting all the status men have, and recognising that to have that status, someone else is still going to have to play the role of women. And that someone else is apparently us.

I don't know if it has been explicitly stated, but drawing a distinction between those who offer support from the sidelines (often because it's a 'nice' thing to do and they haven't thought it through and it's probably one of a few vaguely similar causes they support) and those who are highly invested, I sense that there is a high degree of bullying present in the kinds of circles from which activists emerge. It starts with guilt-tripping and demands to 'check privilege' and being reminded that if you are white and middle-class (whatever that means) and female then addressing your oppression should come last really. This is done to generate a sense of shame and embarrassment and unworthyness. This is overlaid with all sorts of fake stats re trans people (mainly MtT) and the individual themselves starts their parasitic sucking of the energy, soul and spirit of their victim until out of fear of being un-PC and guilt about putting themselves first they do whatever for their host. If they transgress there is a threat of abandonment and public humiliation. I see some behaviour as pimping because so many of the young activist types get off on watching women do their dirty work, particularly if it's to other women. Basically MtT activists, many being misogynistic men, know exactly how to push the gender buttons that have been instilled in girls from an early age - be nice, put others first, look after men, etc. I have one who still tries this with me. he does not succeed, but I can see he is now working on the women to try and isolate me. I've found that many of these men like traditional women - or should I say women in traditional roles - some to play 'mum' and others to be their hareem. I see a lot of this as similar to the tactics that groomers and pimps use.

What's so regressive is how many have absorbed the notion that being a woman (or man) is a feeling, that "cis" is a perfectly acceptable label for those who aren't "trans" thus suggesting it's natural for people to have gender traits which are actually ascribed to their sex by society. The conflation of "sex" and "gender" is widespread.

I think it's because the majority of people didn't really get WHY we wanted to be Ms, they just thought we were being awkward and they cant see how this is different, they just think it's the same thing.