Guilty Feminist: minefields

The whole tour has gender-neutral toilets....It will always be SAFETY over COMFORT.

Well, she's got that the wrong way round then, hasn't she?!

And what does "it will always be SAFETY over COMFORT" mean. Is it known that gender neural toilets are safer than single sex ones?

I don't understand how she can claim to have exclusively gender neural toilets on her tour. Does she insist that every venue install tampon machines and sanitary bins in the men's loos? Has she that much power? Or does she only perform in venues with gender neural toilets?

AssignedPerfectAtBirth yes I agree - but it goes with the territory - doesn't it?

It's not that the toilets are gender neutral but the TERF comments that are so depressing. Intersectional feminism means throw women under the bus for men, I guess

She's a younger generation than me - and I would hazard a guess many posters here.

Pro trans is the prevailing philosophy these days can't say I'm too surprised although she's a smart cookie, It's a shame she's obviously not thought about this one too critically.

As I said upthread I think Sofie is an intersectional feminist and has had only gender neutral toilets at her venues for a couple of years.

Well that's fucking depressing. Maybe you should email her Meghan Murphy's 'Terf' Article

I usually love the guilty feminist and I thought attempting the topic was brave. I saw several occasions where Deborah and Sofie were ripped into online early on for not being inclusive enough. It felt and continues to feel that whatever they say is wrong according to someone. I usually love the guilty feminist and I think that might be why DFW edits out any mention of her body etc. Hearing her trying to stand up for the facts that something's biologically can only be experienced by women sadly felt brave rather than a straightforward fact and she wasn't supported. I am supportive of everyone's right to identify in a way that feels right to them but I don't feel I am being deliberately inflammatory or prejudiced to say only a biological woman could experience periods, abortion or childbirth. Isn't that just a..... well fact?
Also I can't understand why the hat thing was seen as not including everyone. Someone made the point plenty of men were wearing them too for example. How no one challenged the comment about calling TERFs that purely because they hate it. Is that different to misgendering? I was left feeling that anything I say relating to my own body and it's function could be taken as me discriminating against a transgender woman, it confuses me (can you tell?!) And I do feel silenced.

This episode more than any had me shouting "oh fuck off" too; glad it wasn't just me. The bit that clinched it for me was the discussion of women from NI having to cross to GB to get access to abortion. DFW seemed to really be sticking her neck out to say that this is a Born Women's issue and she didn't feel that we had finished dealing with these things yet so there wasn't room to move over for trans issues here. I agreed so much with her perspective there and was glad as I don't usually see trans things from the same viewpoint as her. Reubs massively failed to offer a satisfactory response to that one - she pretty much dodged the question and moved on - which suggested that not even she could conjure a response which wouldn't be completely, obviously aimed at silencing women.

I've just listened to the bit where she said she edits references to her body out of the podcast. Why? It sounded to me as if she was asking the mtt permission to start using words like vagina and mensuration. I noticed he didn't say they were perfectly fine words to use.

The bit where leyla mentioned that babies are subjected to fgm, and Deborah said its far to soon to know whether these are male or female victims? Wtf.

These men are taking the ability of victims to talk about what is happening to them away and all Deborah can say is how can we make feminism more inclusive, more about men.

I think its because its easier to sit back and let the men take to stage than actually stand up to men and the damage they do to women.

Oh, and the buzzer thing was ridiculous.

I'm half an hour in and I'm finding it hard work. I've just listened to the monologue about the horror of saying 'ladies and gentlemen'. Its telling that after she was pulled up about excluding non binaries, she didn't say anything for half an hour afterwards. I think that's the point if this movement - people are so scared to say the wrong thing, they don't say anything at all.

Its a pity that this podcast isn't for me - I listen to loads, but they are mostly hosted by two or three men and I want more presented by women.

I've never listened to Guilty Feminist but I know some of my friends do.

It sounds seriously annoying but also as if it might be helpful in pushing more people towards peak trans? As someone said upthread, with no visual cues people are just hearing a male voice trying to stop women talking about their own bodies.

"Oh yes twelvety I forgot to mention the FGM, which Reubs thinks should be renamed Misogynistic GM "

I swore out loud at that point, startling a man walking past my garden.

Twelvety The woman who was chastised for saying 'Ladies and gentlemen'. I mean really. Fuck Right Off.

And Deborah, repeatedly saying She Wanted To Learn. She was willing to do as she was told, more like.

Awful, awful, awful

And the transwoman had a man's voice. Wasn't even effeminate

(Maybe I shouldn't listen to the rest )

Yes I'm about there too. Going to the gym shortly and will resume listening. May have to do some work on the punchbag.

It's utterly infuriating. She would be as well sitting at his feet and asking what he wanted her to do/say. I actually feel humiliated on her behalf, honestly, the whole thing gives me the willies.

It does indeed seem like Deborah's need for inclusion is in this case defying reason. I had to stop listening after she/Reubs started talking about the female penis.

The majority of biological women have vaginas, the possession of which causes them to be oppressed as a class.

Yet they are not allowed to identify/name their vaginas so as not to offend trans women? Fuck that shit.

Cherrypi I thought the same and I think I've listened to them all. I don't know, maybe 20s?

I don't think I can face the new Reubs episode. She comes across as very young. Is she?

Just been listening to it while doing the garden. Quite a few shrubs have bourne the brunt of my frustration.

Deborah tried so so bloody hard to be inclusive, to be kind, to be nice, but there is no compromise with these cunts; it's submit or nothing. Haven't listened to it all, my fitbit was registering abnormally high heart rates so I started on the red.

I have just listened to this and thought it was great. Very bold of them to tackle the issues I think. I thought Leyla saying "if I am in a battle, I expect you to stand with me", was brilliant. But I did find myself saying "oh just fuck off" when Reubs said she was calling TERFs 'TERFs' because they don't like it. Erm, you are literally doing the exact same thing as you object to - calling someone something they don't like.

I also found myself wondering about what kind of warped privilege women have that means our pussies are grabbed, and our genitals mutilated, and yet we're not allowed to talk about it, because...cissexism. Doesn't sound like privilege to me.

I thought the male privilege episode was good too, and found it quite funny when the MTF guest was so SHOCKED by her experience of it. Though it did piss me off when she said "just ask for a bigger slice of cake". We don't ask for a bigger slice of cake, because we've been socialised SINCE BIRTH to accept a smaller slice - it's not that we've just not thought of asking.

I listen to the GF podcasts when I run and tend to startle other people by laughing out loud and/or saying "oh FUCK OFF" (as today). Might need to go back to just listening to music.

I agree with pp that say feminists and trans have things in common - e.g. Reubs mentioned the ridiculousness of gender reveals for unborn babies. Also that perhaps the aim (one day) is to be post trans, where gender doesn't matter. But the aims in between veer drastically.

Also I would agree that the trans women they have on sound like men (apart from the lower voice) and they definitely change the dynamic.
Leyla has been on before and Deborah once referred to her as an FGM campaigner (supporting FGM) by accident and Leyla pointed it out and Deborah made a joke and even mentioned it the next time she was on as a running joke. But in this episode Carrie (co host) was talking about a previous episode where Avery (trans woman guest) called her out for saying "ladies and gentlemen" and Carrie said she didn't speak for the next 10 minutes. She said "oh it was really good of her to do that" but I was a bit . Yes so great that you felt you couldn't say anything as a woman on a podcast about feminism.

biscuit I also though the point about wearing very gendered clothing so as to be identified as belonging to the ‘woman’ tribe was an interesting perspective. Also Reubs saying that she would not want to dress up and wear make-up in a society where that would be seen as male behaviour. I think it has helped me understand the concepts of ‘cis privilege’. I don’t really do feminine clothing - jeans, jumper and trainers most days - and I don’t wear makeup, but no-one would mistake me for anything other than a woman. I guess if you are trans and you goal is to be seen as a woman then going for very gendered clothing and make up is the way to do it. I can also see how it follows that pointing out all those other ways you differ from ‘cis’-women does feel very aggressive and undermining. I am just not convinced that is good enough excuse. Just because you want - even feel you need - to be perceived as part of that ‘woman’ tribe does not give you a right to insist that you are and to manipulate the definition to prove it. Which I guess is what Sophocles means by colonists.