Once again what is considered an ordinary and mundane task when done by a woman is madecsuper dpectacular by a man...

Manclife ODFOD it's a thread on a public forum, the poster can raise whatever they like. You were rude, I commented on it.

When I was in the front garden fixing my bike once a kindly gentlemen stopped to tell me how great it was to see a woman fixing a bike. I beamed with pride so I can see how praising men for mundane tasks will be really beneficial.

Barf at Surgeon! Barf at them all actually Mancliff But none of those professions are mundane.

Equally barf at the praise heaped on a man for doing his child's hair. I take my son to the hairdressers, do I get a medal? I'm his parent.

And totally agree Enid. Do the basics and you get praise.

I put up my shed and fences. My best tool in the house is my Stanley Max.

@Notreallyarsed

Can the poster not raise that themselves?

@EnidColeslaw771

Woman works, big fucking deal.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/apr/26/meet-women-doing-mens-work

Or do you think they're just trying to change people's perceptions with exposure and praise?

I can't do buns for some reason and when I took my girl to ballet I would get funny stairs
Sent my husband and they fell over themselves to help him do a bun

Why are buns so hard ??? But that's a whole other thread

a grumpy dragon aren't we?

did you mean to be so rude?

Hmm, a grumpy dragon arent we. Have you not thought that by championing men doing these 'mundane' things we are doing something to get men into nursing and teaching? You know, that social change that people so want.

Oh and your assumption I was having a go at WISE shows you biased in your views of the world. I not only agree with what they do but think the concept should expanded.

First woman to put up a shelf? First woman to fix the dishwasher? Those are about on the same banality/importance level as hair.

Sure, its good for kids to see men doing 'mummy' tasks... as something completely normal, not as something requiring special attention. Just get on with it, chaps (as many, of course, do, just as women get on with 'daddy' tasks without fanfare). Normalise it.

'Men need praise for doing it till the balance tips. This made me imagine clicker training a dog '

Good boy! have a biscuit!

Its the having to be praised for banal, trivial easy things which is so tedious. Maybe manclife can find an analogy for those? (Don't complain about the activities of WISE, do something about lack of MIN and MIT - men in nursing/teaching)

Just google 'first woman too' and it's full of women doing things men have been doing for years. Just because you see doing a child's hair as mundane doesn't make it unimportant. In a thread about women in STEM the feedback was it all stems from the parents so kids seeeing men doing traditional roles will change attitudes of a generation. Why is that such a bad thing?

If you want men out of some roles and replaced by women those men need to go somewhere. You've pointed out it's as a result of social conditioning which doesnt get changed without doing something. So how else are we going to make traditionally female roles met attractive to men? The awards I linked to are for a reason.

Oh and being a manger in the NHS is being a manager which is a traditionally male role. I'm talking about frontline health care.

Couldn't be arsed to point out the utter stupidity of suggesting that praise from mumsnetters motivated women to do "traditionally male things.

In female dominated areas like nursing and teaching men are disproportionately represented in management and higher level roles. Not sure men need prizes to enter them.

www.wisecampaign.org.uk/news/2017/04/wise-awards-for-amazing-stem-women-days-work-shadowing-prizes-with-top-directors

Couldn't find one for Men in teaching or health care though.

The same way women are praised for doing traditionally male roles

But we're not though! A mum who works an 80 hour week isn't likely to be praised is she? Or a woman who in the event of a marriage/relationship breakdown leaves the family home and her kids with their dad. Is she going to be praised?

I think you are right about seamstresses and cooks. These are typically women's jobs but it takes a man to elevate this to an art form. And no cook is not the same as chef but that's part of the point - one is paid one isn't.

The same way women are praised for doing traditionally male roles

Interesting that you didn't choose this part of my post.

Men need praise for doing it till the balance tips. This made me imagine clicker training a dog

Your point about seamstress and cook are way off the mark.

No one calls female designers or dressmaker "seamstresses" ("Dressmaker" btw isn't gendered - Norman Hartnell for example was the Queen's dressmaker)

Cook does not imply female and chef does not imply male.

I can assure you that my lived experience is that this is not the case.

I can assuer you that in my lived experience this is the case. Probably nobody would dare come out with the "can the wife do it?" comment in from of me

A woman who makes clothes is a seamstress, a man who does it is a fashion designer

You had a valid point until you got to this. I can't imagine anyone uses the word "seamstress"(unless you are performing Tiny Dancer)

I have a dressmaker- she repairs and alters dresses.She probably makes dresses as well, although I haven't used her for that. My husband uses her for alterations for trousers. He refers to her as "your dressmaker". I also have bespoke dresses from someone who is a designer. She designs the dresses and the dressmakers she employs make them up. I would never dream of calling any of them "a seamstress".

So far as cook/chef- the words are surely interchangeable- the posher the joint, the more likely it will have a chef.

I can assure you that my lived experience is that this is not the case. The stock response is 'can't your wife sort it out?'

Probably depends on how feminist the people in question think they are.

Declaring that wifey should do that seems the not-pretending-to-be-feminist response.

Whereas I could see alleged feminists praising a man for doing his share of childcare while considering women who leave a business meeting failures.