Once again what is considered an ordinary and mundane task when done by a woman is madecsuper dpectacular by a man...

No, same industry, different companies.

Usual lip service paid to flexibility but wow betide you if you actually use it. Their idea of flexibility is that YOU work 24/7,

Do you work at the same place Anatidae?
I worked at a place where it was all tuts and frowns if anyone's child was ill (or indeed if anyone was ill!), and "can't someone else look after them". Crucially, none of the senior management (male CEO, 2 x female senior managers) had children.
Everywhere I've worked since has been much more accomodating, male or female.

Ds is sick this week.

We've taken two days leave each to look after him.

The reaction from his work has been markedly different to the reaction from mine. He's a dedicated dad, swoon, oh aren't you wonderful.
I'm uncommitted, where's my nanny/childcare/can't I work around it, etc etc. Tuts and frowns and it'll be held against me

www.culinaryschools.org/famous-chefs/jamie-oliver/#context/api/listings/prefilter.

Studied and went to France.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Berry

studied for her qualifications as much as Jamie Oliver did.

Now Fanny Cradock is a different kettle of fish! Her background is theatre and acting!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_Cradock

Nigella Lawson is the epitome of a celebrity chef. Saw an opening and ran with it. Consummate business woman.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigella_Lawson#Education

Prue Leith is the hostess with the mostest when it comes to qualifications

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prue_Leith

Don't get me started on Gregg (two gs) Wallace

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_Wallace

usernameavailable

Sorry, as a partner of a chef...
A cook is some one who hasn't been taught professionally. A chef has worked for the title chef snd had to pass examinations.
Sorry, I know this isn't related to your post but I really needed to point this out!

Apologies- that seems a perfectly reasonable distinction and it is based on training and experience, not sex.

Sorry, as a partner of a chef...
A cook is some one who hasn't been taught professionally. A chef has worked for the title chef snd had to pass examinations.
Sorry, I know this isn't related to your post but I really needed to point this out!

I do get your post though. I totally agree not the chef bit though

Maybe I need to get out more if this bothers me!

You really don't like being contradicted do you?

Isn't "Yawn" the type of response which feminists complain about men doing when presented with facts they don't like?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/05/outrage-italian-cuisine-nigella-lawson-angers-italians-controversial/

Beloved chef Nigella

Yawn! zzzzzz

I love the word seamstress. It's magical and conveys a person who can indeed do wonders

Well the OP thinks it is an inferior version of "designer".

I quite like it (Tiny Dancer is lovely and is about Maxine Taupin the seamstress for the band) but by no stretch of the imagination is it used to designate female designers "seamstresses" as opposed to (male) "designers"

As on another thread I recommend Google. Here is a start.

www.bbc.co.uk/food/chefs

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8009970.stm

www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/9848867/Delia-Smith-vows-never-to-make-another-cookery-programme.html

www.marieclaire.co.uk/entertainment/people/love-mary-berry-here-are-12-things-we-bet-you-didn-t-know-about-her-110545

Just hold on there a wee moment. Restaurants have chefs that are mainly men, and who make a lot of money. They are mainly reviewed by men too

What do you mean by "chef" ? It is not a specific term. I'm not sure what your point is. The woman who cook in restaurants are called chefs- there might be less of them that does not mean they are not chefs. Allegra McEvedy for example is a chef.

I use the word seamstress

I'm struggling to imagine any situation other than a karaoke performance of Tiny Dancer where it would be appropriate or relevant to call anyone a "seamstress". Are you seriously suggesting that female designers, whether at the Vivienne Westwood level or straight out of art school are called "seamstresses"?

The only person I've ever heard use this term was the groupie Pamela Des Barres who described herself as such because she used to embroider clothes for Robert Plant.

I love the word seamstress. It's magical and conveys a person who can indeed do wonders.

I have never heard any of the women I mentioned above described as a cook. And how could I omit Lawson?

I use the word seamstress. I have never heard anyone describe Delia as a chef, nor Mary Berry.

Just google 'first woman too' and it's full of women doing things men have been doing for years.

Well actually...a hell of a lot of 'first woman to' come up as males. First woman on the frontline is a male who trained as a male and decided recently he was a woman, so now the first woman to actually do this, will get no recognition.

Same for the matrix 'sisters'. Males who take the glory for highest grossing film trilogy by a woman/women ffs...

The works canteen or the school canteen have cooks - restaurants have chefs

Just hold on there a wee moment. Restaurants have chefs that are mainly men, and who make a lot of money. They are mainly reviewed by men too.

Now give me Delia Smith, Fanny Craddock, Mary Berry et al any day. And of course the wonderful Two Fat Ladies, Jennifer Patterson and Clarissa Dickson.

Manclife Apology accepted, and I also apologise for (accidentally) misrepresenting you on WISE

No one uses the word "seamstress". well, except Sir Terry as a euphemism!

I think you are right about seamstresses and cooks. These are typically women's jobs but it takes a man to elevate this to an art form. And no cook is not the same as chef but that's part of the point - one is paid one isn't

That is just nonsense. No one uses the word "seamstress".

Coco Chanel, Stella McCartney, Vivienne Westwood, Edina Ronay, Jill Sander, Agnes B, Anne Demeuelemeester, Vera Wang, Rei Kawakuba, Mary Quant, Victoria Beckham , Diane von Furstenberg, Elsa Schiaperelli and on and on and on are "designers" not seamstresses.

So far as cook or chef the distinction is the venue. The works canteen or the school canteen have cooks - restaurants have chefs.

The film was The Cook, the Thief, his Wife and her Lover - the cook was a man.

Ships and armies had cooks who were men. Elevating anyone who cooks to be a chef is a relatively modern usage. Delia et al are known as chefs.

@Errol then I apologise for taking it the wrong way and for my reply.

Don't take things with a grin too seriously! That was just a mental image which amused me, and possibly rang a bell.

@ErrolTheDragon Did you mean to be so rude? No, did you mean to be patronizing? “Good boy! Have a biscuit”

One of the issues around equality is the proportionately women tend to stay at home and do ‘mundane’ things while men go out to work (and do other mundane things) So, if we are going to change attitudes BOTH roles need enough numbers of the opposite sex to take an interest in them. If the guardian can heap praise on a woman driving a truck (which many men would find mundane) then why not heap praise on a guy doing an equally mundane role. Most areas of work have women only awards yet we do not have the same for men. Now before you say “all awards are for men” that’s a fair point but loses its potency when you say the same about female dominated rolls.
Let’s not forget the praise (and I’ll accept she got some criticism) Paris Jackson got for not shaving her legs which let’s face it is much easier the platting unconditioned hair!

Totally agree. My DP is a good looking fella and when we're out and about, his normal interactions with our son earn him smiles and admiration from all quarters but particularly from women.

When I interact with my son nobody gives a flying fuck. It certainly doesn't result in men finding me more attractive.

I put up all the shelves and do all the drilling in our heterosexual marriage. Even when I'm heavily pregnant. No one is bloody giving me any extra praise for doing it.

(Although I'm an engineer and DH is a liberal arts graduate which probably explains our division of labour more accurately than our genitals).

Lunchbreak ...back to MN from some banal tech stuff.

Manclife - did you mean to be so rude?

Yeah, this sort of thing sometimes makes me grumpy. And the point about WISE is more that its simply not comparable to a bloke doing his DDs hair, is it? And sure, there should be the equivalent for men in other areas - if there aren't then a thread discussing why not might be interesting, but Feminism wouldn't be the most appropriate place for it.

@Notreallyarsed in that case I don't care what you think!

To be fair to mancliffe, a friend of mine has recently split from her husband and is posting all the DIY she is doing on fb - regular, boring stuff like putting up shelves, painting and assembling furniture, and she's getting a lot of praise for it, along with comments from other women about how they couldn't do it.