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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women in STEM - who is at fault?

228 replies

EBearhug · 07/09/2017 22:43

I was reading Computer Weekly's Focus paper on Men for women in tech.

It says it mentions parents heavily, which it does - and this is no bad thing, because I do think parents have quite some influence on what their children may decide to do for a career - I know quite a few people who went into the same or similar careers as their parents, and we all know of acting dynasties and so on. (And I suspect that me ending up in IT has quite a bit to do with it being something my parents knew nothing about.)

However...

"Industry experts suggest that dads rarely stand in the way of their daughters pursuing careers in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (Stem) as they want to believe their daughters can go on to achieve any desired career." (p5)

"But mothers are often cited as one of the reasons girls choose not to go into technology, as they often dissuade their daughters from pursuing a job in the technology industry, fearing it would not suit them." (p15)

So yay, mothers to blame again. But - do women have a clearer idea of how hostile an environment it can be? I think a lot of men just don't see any sexism. My manager has said there is no sexism, in response to me giving examples of minor sexist things which happen every day. I've had a few colleagues over the years who've outright said that they don't think that women can think logically or always react emotionally (I usually respond with examples of men who always react emotionally.) Plus of course, those who respond to surveys and give interviews to CW on diversity are probably pretty much self-selecting and are more likely to be the type who do recognise the issues and are aware of the various barriers.

I've spoken to male colleagues (most of my colleagues are male - I work as a unix sys admin,) about why they think there are so few women in IT - mostly, the response has been along the lines of, "well, it's IT, women don't want to do it." They don't see the problem, and they think it's a choice that's freely made. They've never been asked to think about why women make that choice, or if it's even a truly free choice - nor about how they might contribute to reasons why women choose not to enter tech careers.

I am all for getting more men involved in diversity - too often it's all about women in tech (or wider STEM) and the majority of men, who create the culture we work in simply by being the majority, aren't involved at all. I'm just feeling uncomfortable about it implying (or maybe I'm just being paranoid and inferring things which aren't there,) that men never stand in the way of girls entering IT, but women do.

And then I worry about whether I am doing enough to promote STEM; I know I do sometimes have doubts about it, because of the constant low-level sexism. I've never actively suggested anyone shouldn't suggest it, but equally, I have stepped back a bit from actively promoting it. I bet none of my male colleagues has the slightest worry about this...

I wondered what others thought.

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/09/2017 23:46

I'm not trying to be contrary but in Primary 6 - 7/Secondary 1(aged 10 to 12 ) I really, really wanted to like science but it turned out I really, really was much better at Arts subjects.

Your theory doesn't explain why mothers are actively putting daughters off (if that is indeed the case)

scaryclown · 07/09/2017 23:37

Here's a theory..
If you fix your future career or educational identity before puberty, you tend to stick with it through the getting off with opposite sex stage
Women tend to start awareness of this stage as options are being chosen Boys a bit later. Women change their career fix to fit more 'normal conversation' subjects, and do more arts

In short, if you choose after puberty there is an element of social approval of your subject choice, before then, less so.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/09/2017 23:31

But - do women have a clearer idea of how hostile an environment it can be?

Why would women in general think that let alone know it as a fact? (If it is a fact)

If there are few women going into STEM is it likely that women who say this would have any actual experience of what it is like working in these fields?

So far as IT my only involvement with IT as a career is with the office IT team (I mean obviously IT teams in offices, not the IT Crowd). I expect that applies to many people. It is just another job in the office. Why would anyone think that is a hostile environment?

So far as Maths- there were more female maths teachers than male at my school.

Engineering I know little about. I do however work with many female surveyors , agricultural advisors and land agents (the latter is not just another way of saying "estate agent" it involves knowing about land use and management, agriculture etc). All of these will need a science rather than an arts foundation.

If any mother is putting her daughter off pursuing any of these because she thinks they have a hostile environment she is misguided and doing her no favours.

I don't know