Why are feminists so aggressive?

the fact that children can hear them

It drives ds1 mad

I wonder if he has grown out of it yet

But yes...it does seem to be mainly FWR though to be fair there is rarely a week goes by without a ‘people are so mean’ thread on AIBU

I wandered into a random conversation about those motion detector thingies that go off when a cat enters your garden and the fact that children can hear them and it ended up with people screaming at each other and multiple people expressing their desire to kill cats because they shit, which apparently shouldn't be allowed.

FWR is a tea party with naice sandwiches in comparison.

Donn't forget the Vaccination board - I cut my teeth on the Vax threads on Mumsnet a decade ago. My god, they were vicious.

Oh yes, Rufus, brexit.

I'm really surprised people single out FWR so much (actually I'm not, because it's feminism innit? Seems to upset {some} people so very much) - but whenever I read AIBU I mostly run away because I'm so shocked at some of the hostility, and sometimes, spitefulness over there.

I've always felt at home in FWR.

Sorry

I got sidetracked

Even lurking on the brexit board stresses me out

And it goes

Poster A....Im fed up with leavers being called racist cunts

Me.... no one has called leavers racist cunts

Poster B .....leavers are racist cunts

And im like....whhhhyyyyyyyyy

I did try kittens

But you just get yelled at by everyone!

I think its the board the mods forgot

Even I'm not going anywhere near the Brexit boards.

That was to zebra who I’m agreeing with 😀

Just about everything people complain about of FWR threads happens on most other boards

Especially aibu and brexit!!

Would not disagree with any of that post kesstrel

the thing that is most offputting for me is when someone's post is twisted and misrepresented by another poster, so that a strawman version can then be "rebutted" and sneered at.

To be fair, this is something that happens all over Mumsnet, and across all subjects.

I've been thinking about this some more, and I've realised the thing that is most offputting for me is when someone's post is twisted and misrepresented by another poster, so that a strawman version can then be "rebutted" and sneered at. This tactic is unfair and disrespectful, because it puts the other person on the back foot, putting them in an undeserved bad light, and forcing them to argue against the misrepresentations of what they've said, rather than allowing them space for their genuine argument. There are numerous examples of this on the Middle Ground thread, for example.

So the biggest problem, IMO, isn't people not being "nice" or being sarcastic or arguing too "robustly". Rather, it's not having enough respect for other women to actually read what they've said properly, and then refrain from misrepresenting it. Because when it comes down to it, if there is too much of that kind of thing going on, a lot of people will just write a forum off as being too difficult and annoying to participate in, regardless of whether they feel they have something to say.

I think @goosefoot makes some good points. I am not saying women should "be more kind" because how many times has that been used to shut down womens voices but as someone who is really quite new to this side of feminism it is off putting to get aggressive responses. I'm not abandoning my principles because someone was rude or snarky on the internet but it has put me off getting more involved and I know of other women who have felt pushed away for asking questons. I think a very small group use the "screw kind" as an excuse to bully. That's not the same as straight talking or just being blunt which I can respect.

So much seconded.

This. Mumsnet could be a brilliant recruiting ground for new feminists: a primarily female space with lots of participants, many of them new mothers and thus encountering for the first time the change in freedom and status that brings to women. Instead many clearly over the years have ended up feeling pushed away, to judge from the many AIBU threads on the subject. This strikes me as counter-productive, and the opposite of what most feminists posting here would actually want to happen. Worth thinking about?

OK, so why do you post here? Why do all of you post here? Why are you posting in this thread? I presume it is because you have something to say and you want people to read it. At some point we all decided to join in, perhaps with trepidation but we joined in nonetheless. When I first started coming to FWR it was intimidating - it was years ago and trust me it was far more intimidating than it is now, much more theory. I read and eventually joined in because I wanted to be part of the conversation and I had something of my own to say. So I'm going to say this, knowing that it will be thought of aas aggressive by some and because it is written I can't say it with a smile and encouraging tone but honest to God women toughen the freak up. On forums every once in a while you take a bit of a verbal beating if you have opinions - especially when you are female. So take it, listen and if you don't agree that's fine but keep on being part of the conversation. All this 'Oh people mock, they use sarcasm, they told me to go and read something ...' honestly let that shit go. If you want to be a feminist and write on here then do it - you shouldn't be letting other people put you off it is defeatist and frankly a bit of an excuse.

I say all this in friendliness to the women out there wanting to speak here, just do it but if you have an opinion which isn't popular, people will respond and respond vigorously. Don't get bogged down by the idea that people haven't been kind enough to you, the women didn't speak nicely etc etc ... because women have been tone policed and had their behaviour checked enough in this world and we shouldn't be doing it to each other. The women here should be able to respond as themselves. And lets face it a lot of us are sarcastic and a bit blunt - that isn't NASTY but it is who some people are and it shouldn't have to be reined in. By all means complain if you are called names, or people are sending you nasty messages - that isn't right but I have to say I haven't seen that here (not that I read every single word). But really toughen up wimms - and join in anyway.

Is Sam Smith on MN? If not it's not actually possible to hurl abuse at him here. Unless you're emailing him links to the thread, and why would you do that?

I'm fairly tired, but I am quite happy to spend two minutes writing a sentence to you Goosefoot along the lines of "When the certificate making you the judge of how other women 'feminist' properly comes through, post a screenshot, because other than tell women to be more accommodating, I've not been overwhelmed by your campaigning for women's rights on here."

It's quite a long sentence, admittedly, and it is fairly snarky, so you probably won't approve. I'll live.

Mumsnet sarcasm is just as bad as AWA/TRA/MRA rape and death threats?!

Ah, no. I believe I said the fact that you don't see death threats here is a pretty low bar for saying it's ok.

And TBF it tends to be the same posters here every time who feel quite ok being aggressive and unkind to people, assuming the worst about their intentions, mocking them for being stupid. Very often this is to other women, which to me says a lot about the real nature of their "feminism". It's not about listening or respecting women.

This crap about telling women they have to be nice because they are women, that is bs. But if you claim to be a feminist and are dismissive of other women because you don't like what they say, not even making any effort to engage with them, you are really just being a bully.

It's a message board, if you are "too tired" then don't respond, no one has to say anything or respond to any message or post if they don't feel like it. No one is forcing some poor tired feminist to type out a message if they don't feel like talking about some issue another time.

I do often wonder if adversarial styles of debating or discussing a topic play into the hands of a more masculine dominated world.

This. Mumsnet could be a brilliant recruiting ground for new feminists: a primarily female space with lots of participants, many of them new mothers and thus encountering for the first time the change in freedom and status that brings to women. Instead many clearly over the years have ended up feeling pushed away, to judge from the many AIBU threads on the subject. This strikes me as counter-productive, and the opposite of what most feminists posting here would actually want to happen. Worth thinking about?

Still, things have improved a lot since the trans issue brought in a big influx of new voices. I haven't seen the "go back to the Daily Fail" taunt for a long time (used to be fairly common), for example. And Bunbury is a great replacement for the off-putting cake recipe discussions that used to look so cliqueish.

Another day, another innocent pill-popping bodybuilder murdered by feminists.

"Sex Game Gone Wrong," apparently.

I do often wonder if adversarial styles of debating or discussing a topic play into the hands of a more masculine dominated world.

I think an inquisitorial style has more value if truth and accuracy are the objectives. We all go into discussions with our own biases, and all too often the goal is to go up to bat for what we think. This is often done at the expense of the potential to learn something new.

Of all the things I am become bone tired of over my rather long life it is this one, of puzzling over why women persist in acting like people, that is on my last nerve.

___
I’ve heard women (and men) day this before and it puzzles me. It parses as, “I thought I was a feminist, but I think feminists were mean to me, so I’ve gone off the whole idea of rights and opportunities for women”.

Well, I'm not sure who resurrected this thread or why but the above two comments from Creepster and DancelikeEmma... about sum up my feelings on the matter.

It's a great deal more than 99.9% of men who are sexist, intimidating, and treat women as lesser than.

20% of women will suffer from a rape or sexual assault in their lives. It's not one man doing this.

And rape and sexual assault is a woefully low bar.

The sexist behaviour of men is everywhere.

I think the issue many people have from my observations is that, despite feminists professing to understand NAMALT, many still bash men in general for murdering women when literally 99.9% of men don't.