Why are feminists so aggressive?

Oh sorry flipperty. I'm never sure of etiquette if a threads moved on so sometimes I do ignore questions a while back.
I'm not sure who the regulars are what with all the name changing!

Well I think it's a great thread - and I like the fact that we're all analysing whether or not posters are critical, patronising, hostile, unkindetc. It's because we care - and I don't mind whether that's socialised or genetic. I like it that we bother and I like it that we centre women in our thinking and our actions and try to unpick how to be welcoming and positive to all
evenwhenwedon'tquitemanageit .

As an older feminist who goes back to the 1970s /80s - these arguments raged back then in similar terms. This is just the same old shit - women being criticised by others (including other women) for voicing difficult / challenging opinions and at times doing so forcefully.

I don't feel hounded off the board here. I have posted on here several times under various usernames asking questions relevant to the thread and been completely ignored while the regulars carry on their banter.

I consider myself a feminist although there's a hell of a lot of things and terminology I don't understand. A lot of the posters on this board seem very educated but not especially willing to educate others, just pour scorn on them.

This isn't meant as a dig, it's how I have felt posting on this board.

"You must be a pleasure to be around" - when not amused by sexist jokes.

And there is a good example. Sometimes I agree with Lass and sometimes I agree with datun, and sometimes I disagree with them both. In a sense so what? If people feel hounded off the fwr boards, why don't I. I don't think I am particularly resilient.

What do you think the answer Is?
I don't know either but it upsets me to think about it so I try not to. Especially criticism of this board. It seems either unfair, or makes my heart break so many women believe they aren't clever enough to say something relevant.

I quite often agree with you ! Datun. I think I have learned to be a bit more critical of thinking about why things are taken to be "well that is just the way they are"

Think that's everything

Anyone got anything new to add or shall we just have a barney?

Not saying I am a feminist does not stop me being female.

But what does being female mean Lass?

lass

You are a regular poster here. I mostly agree with you, sometimes I don't. But I'd be interested to know whether or not your opinion has changed, at all, since you have been posting and reading.

The feminist boards haven't chosen anything, they're boards. They are however, used by feminists who have feminist opinions. If you don't agree with feminism then you're probably not a feminist, that seems pretty obvious. Would you go on the religion board and say 'I'm a Christian but I don't believe in Jesus' and expect anybody to agree with you?? Saying you have a certain set of beliefs implies that you believe those things. If you don't believe them then you don't believe them, that's fine but claiming that you are still part of that group despite not believing (when belief is the defining factor) is odd

I am female and I have opinions about women's rights , women's place in society and women's issues. It is not comparable in the way you suggest. Not believing in Christ would indeed mean I'm not a Christian. Not saying I am a feminist does not stop me being female.

I don't think adding "As a feminist...." makes the opinion which follows more or less valid.

I have my own views on issues which affect women - sometimes they accord with radical feminism- sometimes they don't. Sometimes the radical feminist position seems absurd, hypocritical and exaggerated.

I don't entirely agree with Scaryclown but I can see where she is coming from here.
One of the serious issue I have is that in order to recruit women to feminism, the movement currently relies on repositioning the safest world conditions we have ever had for both sexes but especially for women, as the most dangerous, stay in the house fear-filled nightmare conditions, so that their arguments can gain traction. Making women afraid, so you can feel like both the expert and the kindly shoulder is abusive, not feminist

And this Feminists say that[society says]women are in danger, can't be bosses, shouldn't do science etc etc. (I have altered Scary's post)

Or listing all the things they say society tells girls they must do or cannot, which often strike me as being a bit over-egged.

Feminists are not aggressive. RIP Kate Millet.

Can I ask the people who think these boards are aggressive and they get hounded off why they think that is.

Not what they say, but why you think it's aggressive? Presumably there is a reason why you think that?

Yanbu Bert, bloody hormonal women!!

On a related note, I've seen a weird increase of people claiming all around mn that they stay away from FWR and then listing a load of choosey choice opinions that apparently "we" (the FWR Borg... - @Lass I think you might be included in that too!!) all share and how much they won't be welcome because of it.

Perhaps because men don't like their little boxes in their brains to touch? And women don't do humour. Because they have so much to think about!

I lurk a lot on the feminism board and only occassionally post. But I have never felt patronised or felt it to be aggressive.There are many difficult discussions and often people get cross, but that happens on lots of threads ( except The Archers one) . What I am trying to say is that it feels as if feminists on MN are claimed to be aggressive when actually they behave in the same way as people on all other boards. Except for aibu which is shit scary.

I can't blame them about the "Becky" because we can be part of the problem too, especially how we react and treat people who are not white.

Here is one (extreme) example: www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/emmett-till-lynching-carolyn-bryant-donham.amp.html

Yes. It was me. I got called the arsehole, personally. Which is really out of order but I didn't report it as I felt it should stay up.

A couple of days ago someone said ''if you say XYX you are an arsehole' and called the radical feminists right wing. I've never seen a radfem say anything like that, and we get called out for less.

I'm white. I've been reading a lot of stuff (on the 'Bitch' website, which is subtitled a feminist response to pop culture) about 'Beckys' and white women's privilege and racist behaviours.

It's been a real challenge to read this stuff without feeling that it's purely attacking white women and is in itself racist. But then I ask myself if I speak like that about men, e.g 'men oppress women'. And the answer is yes I do, and actually I feel I'm reasonable to do so. Because men as a group do oppress women as a group.

So I have to properly pay attention to the criticism of white women as a group and their part in racism towards black women as a group even though it often feels like a personal attack.

I think some of the 'Becky' stuff is just sexism disguised as radical discussions about racism and as 'Bitch' is American it's therefore culturally slightly different to the UK. However that doesn't mean I ought not inspect my own behaviour based on what I read even if it does feel aggressive. And frankly I have to accept the truth some of it. Any criticism of your own behaviour feels like an attack but that doesn't mean you can't examine it properly. Some of it may be wrong in your opinion and you can put it aside. But that doesn't make it worthless.

No, it was obvious trolling, usually deleted after a while.

I can't answer for everybody of course but from my point of view I'll engage with any well-argued point. I don't engage usually with general unsubstantiated criticisms (like the idea that all feminists hate men).

If the women who post here are letting feminism down and doing it a disservice why don't you take over the board and continue to discuss things and try to change opinions? Or are all the women here a lost cause in your eyes, not worth any time or attention? Beyond telling them how awful they are and how much they're damaging feminism, and so on.

I have seen very obvious trolling and understandably angry/silly responses to that,

Ever consider that was someone genuinely offering an alternative perspective?

Nope but I do think the feminism boards are less a place for open discussion and more a place for like minded individuals to agree with each other.

Every now and again threads like this start up were regulars like to reassure themselves that the reputation isn't earned but nothing really changes.