Why are feminists so aggressive?

There's no escaping the fact that if you want to discuss feminism then you have to have some level of grasp of what it's all about. I admit that I get frustrated when I'm trying to discuss something and it's clear that some posters aren't really getting the point - I can't be bothered to explain what I see to be more basic ideas over and over again. I think that can make some people feel excluded and I understand that. However, I don't think it's my duty to painstakingly educate everyone who wants to be educated - there are plenty of things out there to read. I wouldn't go on a thread about, say, the subtleties of Sharia Law and ask why Muslims don't eat pork - it is not relevant to the thread and I can't expect posters to stop and explain that point to me before going on with their own discussion.

^ Even with my fairly obvious username, I don't think I have experienced that elsewhere on MN, to be honest. Isn't that interesting? I have been on ABIU on trans threads and seen comments about how the FWR crowd are turning up etc., but that's as far as it goes.

Thing is there is a problem with how fwr is perceived. So it can't just be the odd misinterpretated joke but lots of them.

I'm fairly careful what I say. But there are some things about which I have a strong opinion. Which I will back up. If someone disagrees, after a certain discourse, I will just say, well then we disagree. You can't make someone believe what you believe. You can only try and put forward your argument. Without personal attacks.

Nonetheless, I have wandered onto other parts of mumsnet, and been instantly criticised just for showing up! Because of my feminist views. Which are fairly mainstream, to be honest.

I once stayed up until the early hours, cutting and pasting various things to demonstrate my argument. Painstakingly, uber politely. The person in question conceded and agreed. Claiming they hadn't known all that, and now they did. (It was a very specific point).

The very next time we were on the same thread, that very same person took exception to the issue we had addressed. Which she had agreed with, at the time.

So, I do think, that some of the feminists on here are instantly categorised, based on their feminist views, and based on that alone.

Occasionally, someone will ask me to clarify, and I realise, to my chagrin, that I have said something ambiguous

That doesn't work with lurkers. Although I do know what you mean, I have a hatred of lol too.

Thing is there is a problem with how fwr is perceived. So it can't just be the odd misinterpretated joke but lots of them.

I agree with yetanother irony flag would be useful. Not for the regulars but for everybody else.

YetAnotherSpartacus

Yes, it was one of those threads where I felt I had a couple of plates spinning at the same time, and if I kept my eye on one, the other would fall.

Because I was interested in the tangent. Although I realised it was a tangent.

Anyway, I think the overall feeling is that feminists can get snarky.

Feminists will either not care, not agree, think they have a reason for it, or think gosh, let's try and be a bit more friendly.

Either way, they're not all going to think the same.
(not ironic)

I apologise for my part in going off on a tangent there - I'm a bit of a nightmare at that (and I realise it frequently looks like merailing) and do my best not to, but my train of thought goes like a runaway train sometimes, and it is only looking at it later that I think wtf are you on about

Fwiw, I'm a relatively regular poster here who isn't highly educated in feminist theory. I don't find that a reason not to post and rarely feel stupid when other people know more than me. I'm sure I know more than them on other subjects, that isn't offensive ffs.

And I agree with whoever it was upthread who suggested that there is a mismatch where regular posters who 'know' each other, know what is meant by a post (be it a joke or ironic or whatever) and less frequent posters who read and take it at face value, and get offended (especially those who take class analysis as a personal insult)

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid

I totally understand what you're saying. But I have a slight reluctance, to add . Unless I've got a pretty good idea that what I've said could be misinterpreted.

I have a slight aversion to emoticons of any kind, and also the use of 'lol'. I do employ it, sometimes, because nothing else will do. 'Haha' can come across as sarcastic all by itself!

And for what it's worth, most of the time I re-read my post before I press send, to make sure I've said exactly what I think. That it's not open to misinterpretation.

Occasionally, someone will ask me to clarify, and I realise, to my chagrin, that I have said something ambiguous. So a quick I'm sorry, that's not what I meant, generally does the trick.

Page 8 is just one example of people saying we are too academic btw. I'm sure I read this earlier in the thread as well.

Bergdorf drove me mad - there were some good points made but also too many people going off on different tangents.

Something that is funny suffers massively from over explanation

I'm just suggesting adding a to indictate you are taking the piss might help. doesn't explain anything to anyone.

Today 12:50 YetAnotherSpartacus

The Bergdorf thread is a derailed dog's breakfast ...

Lol. But you see, I wouldn't know that. I was fascinated to watch it unfold.

But that the whole of mn need to get on board with the joke and alter their sense of humour accordingly.

I know the opening post asked the question. So I know this was in answer to it. But I don't think anyone should change their sense of humour. A sense of humour is something personal, subjective and not something you can easily change. Something that is funny suffers massively from over explanation.

But that's just me.

The Bergdorf thread is a derailed dog's breakfast ...

I think people are at least partly complaining about the high falutin' nature of FWR. It's not the only complaint, but I do see it as one amongst many.

YetAnotherSpartacus

I was just about to say that I have no academic feminist background whatsoever. Just an interest. And it motivates me.

But I take your point.

However,
Selfishly, I enjoy the high level of debate and can usually keep on top of it, but I'm understanding that others might find this a struggle.

That isn't what people are complaining about, is it?

I didn't think it was about intellectual debate, but more about feeling unwelcome due to not being the right kind of feminist. Or disagreeing with something based on your opinion, not your intellectual ability.

There is a thread going on here at the moment about Munroe Bergdorf. Many of the women on there have a highly academic background in all sorts of things, which leaves me completely at sea.

I have made one or two comments, but I'm very conscious that I am out-educated, by almost all of them. So I'm reading with interest, and commenting where I can stand my ground. But I don't feel excluded, or intimidated because of it.

You can't have an irony icon. It defeats the object of being ironic

Fine but don't be shocked when people who aren't regulars miss it. And fwr comes across in the wrong way.

The question was asked - why are feminists perceived as aggressive on fwr (or something like that). A possible answer is that some joke posts aren't being seen as jokes.

Bit annoying that the solution to this problem is not that posters should consider sticking a on the end of joke posts like they do almost everywhere else on mn
But that the whole of mn need to get on board with the joke and alter their sense of humour accordingly.

I completely disagree with this. You see loads of threads with "lighthearted" in the title. And sometimes "I can't believe I have to point out this is a lighthearted thread"

There is rarely a thread on here that is designed to be lighthearted. (With, ironically, one exception at the moment.)

Most of the opening posts are an attempt to point out oppression, sexism, and the flattening of women's rights. Not lighthearted stuff. Sometimes people let off steam on the pub thread instead.

Sometimes people will post an ironic or sarcastic comment, to make a point.

I honestly can't imagine many posts on here that would suit a "light-hearted" caveat.

Frankly if I'm not sure someone is being sarcastic, and sometimes it's hard to tell, what with Poe's Law, i'll know they're not, if I know the poster, and if I'm really not sure I'll do a quick search

Yeah, but not everyone is as articulate as you or comes from the same cultural background / understanding. I'm quite conscious of this because I actually do have postgraduate quals in antiquated feminist theory and I recognise that whereas I feel very at home here, even though I'm not a modern rad fem, others might not. Selfishly, I enjoy the high level of debate and can usually keep on top of it, but I'm understanding that others might find this a struggle.

You can't have an irony icon. It defeats the object of being ironic.

Frankly if I'm not sure someone is being sarcastic, and sometimes it's hard to tell, what with Poe's Law, i'll know they're not, if I know the poster, and if I'm really not sure I'll do a quick search.

Or ask.

I don't think I've ever seen a biscuit here

I've biscuited someone here. I don't do it often because I just get cravings for sweet shortbread with sticky raspberry jam. The only time I eat those damn biscuits is in B&Bs when they always seem to be the biscuit of choice. I don't even think about them normally, but every time I see one here I want one.

Was it seashell or someone who talked about staunch? I think she was a bit hard done by, by the way.

Because I'm arguing about females having a choice. Not because I'm a punter.

But it's a little unfair to apply misinterpretation as the issue to FWR, when other boards are downright insulting. With no misinterpretation necessary

I completely disagree with this. You see loads of threads with "lighthearted" in the title. And sometimes "I can't believe I have to point out this is a lighthearted thread"

Other threads can be intimidating too. Style and Beauty can be a scary place (for me at least). AIBU is well know for its forthright nature, it's not for the faint of heart. EU threads are a bit of a haven for those that think Brexit is utterly foolish.
It's not just fwr that has a reputation.

If you argue passionately in favour of prostitution as a man, why object to being called a punter?

But therein lies the problem. You can't seek equality on a feminist board then make sexist comments. It looks like hypocrisy and comes across as man hating. However, on a style and beauty threat it's easier to dismiss it as 'just banter'.

There's also much more tolerance of women saving questions then that men. Then when men offer an opinion it 'mansplaining'.

Threats to "rip of men's balls off" is okay yet violence against women is, quite rightly, challenged straight away.

Would be interesting for a female feminist to post on here as a curious male on a few post and judge the reaction.

Personally I've been called a 'punter' on a discussion about prostitution, a troll for disagreeing with an opinion on another and seen comments suggesting an inocemt person was guilty of an offence because they were a man.

Irony flag would be amazing.

You don't really need it on what's app groups. Because you have a small group you know well and you all get it.
But on these threads (and loads of others too) the regulars get it but it's wide open to miss interpretation by the rest of the internet.

In fact other boards frequently have ODFOD, are you on glue, you sound entitled, and the ubiquitous .

I don't think I've ever seen a biscuit here, and those phrases are simply not employed. Or if they are, they're very rare and usually applied to an MRA.